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View Full Version : FYI: 90-day DOJ Delay for Green Card


Davidwhitewolf
07-09-2008, 3:27 PM
A buddy of mine recently got his green card, dated the 1st of May. To celebrate Heller I sold him a Ruger Single-Six in .17 HMR as it's a "cowboy gun" and he's a cowboy movie buff. A few days after we did the transfer the FFL called us to say DOJ denied him as a "prohibited person." He called DOJ and the nice lady confirmed that even though he's legal to purchase a gun from the moment his green card is issued by the Feds, it will take 90 days from that date for DOJ to update their database so he can buy a gun -- which seemed a bit silly since she had the date of the green card on her computer screen.

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting bureaucratic obstacle and I couldn't find prior discussion of it on Calguns, so FYI.

We'll try again in August. Will report back if any problems.

Moonclip
07-09-2008, 3:33 PM
So you lost the $35 dollars?

Davidwhitewolf
07-09-2008, 3:35 PM
Well, I didn't -- my buddy did. I sold him the gun for a buck, so it's not as though it's going to hurt his wallet to pay a second DROS.

elSquid
07-09-2008, 5:35 PM
A buddy of mine recently got his green card, dated the 1st of May. To celebrate Heller I sold him a Ruger Single-Six in .17 HMR as it's a "cowboy gun" and he's a cowboy movie buff. A few days after we did the transfer the FFL called us to say DOJ denied him as a "prohibited person." He called DOJ and the nice lady confirmed that even though he's legal to purchase a gun from the moment his green card is issued by the Feds, it will take 90 days from that date for DOJ to update their database so he can buy a gun -- which seemed a bit silly since she had the date of the green card on her computer screen.

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting bureaucratic obstacle and I couldn't find prior discussion of it on Calguns, so FYI.

We'll try again in August. Will report back if any problems.

Weird. You don't need to be a permanent resident to buy a gun.

If you aren't one, there are exceptions to the general prohibition, like having a valid hunting license:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r1

-- Michael

blackhawk411
07-09-2008, 6:12 PM
It's because USCIS, Social Security office, DMV and other agencies are not really connected as far as data goes so it takes awhile for them to process it all around. Since he got his greencard in May, it usually takes 60~90days for that info to get around. It's a total pain in the ***

dustoff31
07-09-2008, 6:23 PM
It's because USCIS, Social Security office, DMV and other agencies are not really connected as far as data goes so it takes awhile for them to process it all around. Since he got his greencard in May, it usually takes 60~90days for that info to get around. It's a total pain in the ***

It has nothing to do with the feds. It's CA DOJ's inefficiency. In the free world the dealer would have just looked at the date on the guys green card, did a NICS check, and the guy would have left the store with his gun.

EDIT: Actually, in the free world one wouldn't be in a gun shop to do a PPT to begin with.


He called DOJ and the nice lady confirmed that even though he's legal to purchase a gun from the moment his green card is issued by the Feds, it will take 90 days from that date for DOJ to update their database so he can buy a gun -- which seemed a bit silly since she had the date of the green card on her computer screen.

Moonclip
07-09-2008, 11:25 PM
Weird. You don't need to be a permanent resident to buy a gun.

If you aren't one, there are exceptions to the general prohibition, like having a valid hunting license:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#r1

-- Michael

Good info, I thought these days one needed a green card to purchase a gun if not a citizen.

battleship
07-09-2008, 11:47 PM
If you have a green card you are classed as a permanent resident, not a U.S citizen but a permanent resident, thats the status the green card affords you.

I think your friend should be just very happy he got his green card, im sure he waited along time to actually be granted it, and the mountain off paper work and fees involved, then even longer for it to come in the mail, so 90 days should not hurt him at all, welcome to America.

gose
07-10-2008, 8:32 AM
It has nothing to do with the feds. It's CA DOJ's inefficiency. In the free world the dealer would have just looked at the date on the guys green card, did a NICS check, and the guy would have left the store with his gun.
EDIT: Actually, in the free world one wouldn't be in a gun shop to do a PPT to begin with.

Actually, even in the free world a green card holder needs to be a resident of a state for 90 days before he can buy a gun and since the green card in question was less than 90 days, I'm guessing that the NICS check would fail since the alien number would show that the green card wasn't even 90 days, just as it would for a non-green card holder who tries to buy a gun within 90 days of entering the country.

So it's not a CA DOJ 90 day delay, it's a federal 90 day delay.

However, the regulations say nothing about that the 90 days start when you get the green card, so if he had supplied his old I94 number together with the alien number on the 4473, it should have gone through. Potentially he might have had to show that he was allowed to buy guns as a non-green card holder (hunting license exemption) for this to work though.

Davidwhitewolf
07-10-2008, 8:54 AM
He's actually been in California for a long time. He and his brother both applied for green cards at the same time about five years ago. His brother applied in Colorado, and got his in a few months. My friend waited five years and paid tens of thousands in attorney fees, just because he had the misfortune to apply in California, where green-card applications are impacted. Friggin' ridiculous.

Guntech
07-10-2008, 9:01 AM
A buddy of mine recently got his green card, dated the 1st of May. To celebrate Heller I sold him a Ruger Single-Six in .17 HMR as it's a "cowboy gun" and he's a cowboy movie buff. A few days after we did the transfer the FFL called us to say DOJ denied him as a "prohibited person." He called DOJ and the nice lady confirmed that even though he's legal to purchase a gun from the moment his green card is issued by the Feds, it will take 90 days from that date for DOJ to update their database so he can buy a gun -- which seemed a bit silly since she had the date of the green card on her computer screen.

Anyway, I thought this was an interesting bureaucratic obstacle and I couldn't find prior discussion of it on Calguns, so FYI.

We'll try again in August. Will report back if any problems.

So your friend was here illegally prior to having his green card? And you tried to sell him a gun?

If you answer yes then
YOU SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! :D

:jump: :36:
(People coming illegally) (New tactic to stop them)

I think no one has discussed this because probably not that many of the cal guns members are friends or know any immigrants(probably illegal since most are at least the ones from down south, oh and Cuba) GUNS + ILLEGAL THINGS = PRISON

dustoff31
07-10-2008, 9:09 AM
So it's not a CA DOJ 90 day delay, it's a federal 90 day delay.

Re-read what the OP posted:

He called DOJ and the nice lady confirmed that even though he's legal to purchase a gun from the moment his green card is issued by the Feds, it will take 90 days from that date for DOJ to update their database so he can buy a gun -- which seemed a bit silly since she had the date of the green card on her computer screen.

The lady has the guy's green card date on her computer screen. She says it's legal for him to buy a gun. But he has to wait 90 days for them to come back from break so they can input information they already have.

Secondly, CA opted out of the NICS check system, preferring to do it themselves. That's why FFLs call CA DOJ instead of the FBI. So again the feds have nothing to do with it.

gose
07-10-2008, 9:25 AM
Re-read what the OP posted:
The lady has the guy's green card date on her computer screen. She says it's legal for him to buy a gun. But he has to wait 90 days for them to come back from break so they can input information they already have.

You're right in that NICS isn't used, I had that confused. However, there is still a federal check performed as part of the DROS.

Well, when did the calguns crowd start believing every word that the DOJ says? ;)
Anyway, with just the green card date, she can't tell that it would be legal for him to buy a gun, unless the proof of 90 days of residency also showed up on her screen (which I doubt) and when the federal background check is running his alien number against the immigration database (which they do for all non-citizens) the check would come back and say that he can't have been a resident for 90 days yet -> failed federal check.

Was it DOJ specifically that denied the transfer, or was it actually the federal check that came back denied? My bet is still on the feds.

I checked on the ATF website and it's not really clear what the deal is when the green card is newer than 90 days. What is perfectly clear though is that he at least needs to provide the FFL with documentation showing that he has lived in California for 90 days, but as it's written, it sounds like residency before the green card was issued is ok, but I dont know for sure.

Davidwhitewolf
07-10-2008, 11:03 AM
So your friend was here illegally prior to having his green card? And you tried to sell him a gun?

If you answer yes then
YOU SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! :D

:jump: :36:
(People coming illegally) (New tactic to stop them)

I think no one has discussed this because probably not that many of the cal guns members are friends or know any immigrants(probably illegal since most are at least the ones from down south, oh and Cuba) GUNS + ILLEGAL THINGS = PRISON

First off, I'm not sure where you get the idea that my friend was here illegally prior to receiving his green card. My friend is from India and as I mentioned above has been going through the very broken legal-immigration process for the past five years.

Secondly, my wife is Latina, a proud US citizen and an NRA Life Member, and the daughter of illegal immigrants who were legalized by Reagan's amnesty. I for one find your "tactic" graphic disturbing.

Davidwhitewolf
07-10-2008, 11:09 AM
You're right in that NICS isn't used, I had that confused. However, there is still a federal check performed as part of the DROS.

Well, when did the calguns crowd start believing every word that the DOJ says? ;)
Anyway, with just the green card date, she can't tell that it would be legal for him to buy a gun, unless the proof of 90 days of residency also showed up on her screen (which I doubt) and when the federal background check is running his alien number against the immigration database (which they do for all non-citizens) the check would come back and say that he can't have been a resident for 90 days yet -> failed federal check.

Was it DOJ specifically that denied the transfer, or was it actually the federal check that came back denied? My bet is still on the feds.

I checked on the ATF website and it's not really clear what the deal is when the green card is newer than 90 days. What is perfectly clear though is that he at least needs to provide the FFL with documentation showing that he has lived in California for 90 days, but as it's written, it sounds like residency before the green card was issued is ok, but I dont know for sure.

We're pretty sure it was DOJ specifically that denied it. He did provide 90 days' worth of utility bills to the FFL (he's got years of 'em) but I'd imagine you're right that DOJ won't have access to them.

Julians4x4
07-10-2008, 11:28 AM
$1 gun, good deal, do you have another..........lol

Davidwhitewolf
07-10-2008, 12:01 PM
When he got married last year I didn't have a wedding present, so I said, knowing the answer, would he like a gun -- and his eyes lit up. He's not a hunter so we had to wait for the green card to go through.

Guntech
07-10-2008, 1:36 PM
First off I would like to say that my first comment was meant to be a joke.

I for one find your "tactic" graphic disturbing.

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I am a realist and I know that immigration especially, illegal immigration, is a huge problem and living in this state you should know and acknowledge that. And I refuse to say " oh no problem Mr. illegal immigrant come on in!" You can go down to my local Home Depot any day of the week and there are at least 40 ILLEGAL immigrants standing in the parking lot(ALL Hispanic hence the south of the border comment) I did not insult you, your wife, or your friend, I was stating a fact. The unemployment rate may not be extremely high in this country but it is rising and we need to act. That's just my .02 cents and I believe we need to start extremely limiting immigration before it gets worse. What the border patrol is currently doing is not working and I can tell you that firsthand as I have seen people jumping the border while in Arizona.

icormba
07-10-2008, 1:55 PM
So your friend was here illegally prior to having his green card? And you tried to sell him a gun?

If you answer yes then
YOU SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION! :D



You do not need a green card to live in the US. There are student and work visas. People who have one of those can apply for a green card. I have worked with hundreds of people who have been here for a few years while working on a visa. One of my best friends from Israel worked here in Santa Clara for over two years while on a visa. It took another friend (from India) about 4-5 years to get his green card and another 3-4 years (or so) to get his US citizenship. It took him well over 8 years before his wife could make it over from India, although once he became a citizen it helped.

So back to the original post... 90 days! That sucks.

gose
07-10-2008, 2:13 PM
We're pretty sure it was DOJ specifically that denied it. He did provide 90 days' worth of utility bills to the FFL (he's got years of 'em) but I'd imagine you're right that DOJ won't have access to them.

You should try to find out. Try giving ATF a call, they're usually very nice to deal with. If they say it's ok, but it was still the fed check that was denied, it should be fixable by giving them his old I-94 number.

edit: It hit me that something exactly like this was discussed a while ago and I found the old thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=95799
Unfortunately there was never really a conclusion to it, but t0kie might have more info if you ping him.

Davidwhitewolf
07-10-2008, 3:23 PM
Guntech, thanks. I don't think anyone would deny that illegal immigration both is the result of serious problems with our immigration "system" and causes serious social problems as well.

Gose, thanks for the link -- I'll check it out.

Moonclip
07-10-2008, 3:31 PM
I feel legal immigration is a problem sometimes also but thats a thread for another forum. Nice gun you gave him too, I'd like one.