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MolonLabe2008
07-09-2008, 2:41 PM
Utah's governor has come out lately against issuing out of state CCW's and now the largest newspaper is also...:mad:

Concealed Weapon Permits
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=238&sid=3681065

ldivinag
07-09-2008, 3:28 PM
tell both of them, to go pound sand...

hoffmang
07-09-2008, 3:30 PM
What I don't understand is why they don't just double the cost of the out of state resident permit and be happy with the added state revenue...

-Gene

JALLEN
07-09-2008, 4:01 PM
The comments are running almost unanimously in favor of transferring the editor to report on weddings and bar mitzvahs in Baghdad in perpetuity. In view of this unanimous expression of unpopularity, I might hazard the guess that nothing will happen.

wilit
07-09-2008, 6:19 PM
Well, maybe if we had a nationwide reciprocity law, Utah wouldn't be flooded with non-resident applications. Perhaps the Governor should push for the passage of that legislation. :D

glockman19
07-09-2008, 6:29 PM
I'll worry about it when mine comes up for renewal. 3/2012

timmerk
07-09-2008, 9:03 PM
My class is this weekend. Hopefully nothing will change in the next few months. 60+ days is a long time though.

kap
07-09-2008, 9:06 PM
I'll worry about it when mine comes up for renewal. 3/2012

By that time you will already be screwed and you ccw revoked. Pay attention and advocate for what you believe in. Apathy will get you nothing.

glockman19
07-09-2008, 10:12 PM
By that time you will already be screwed and you ccw revoked.

They aren't talking about revoking existing permits just discontinuing them to non-residents.

Pay attention and advocate for what you believe in.
? I do

I hope that by the time it comes due for renewal I'll have my CA CCW anw we'll have reciprocity.

artherd
07-10-2008, 3:17 AM
you're still not getting it. the time to fight this is now and here.

ryang
07-11-2008, 12:36 AM
? I doNo, it sounds like you don't. You just said you already got yours and since it doesn't expire until 2012 you have no motivation to do anything about Utah CCWs now.

Matt P
07-11-2008, 12:55 AM
Can I start a get your Utah permits before they ban them thread??




Just a joke.................................. Carry on.....

CHS
07-11-2008, 4:09 AM
I love ignorance:

"It begs a couple of simple questions: why is the state of Utah even in the business of arming the nation? How does it benefit the people of Utah?"

So, Utah is handing out free guns with their CCW's? Because that's what "Arming the nation" means to me. I didn't think giving someone a permit to do something with an object they already owned was "Arming the nation".

To the second question: Lets see, Utah already loses hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars a year on alcohol revenue as people buy their liquor and beer out of state due to the absurd dry laws. Maybe the money brought in by issuance of CCW's actually benefits the state? Like another poster said, double the cost and enjoy the revenue, because it won't stop people from applying anyways.

Now, if Utah *IS* handing out free guns with a permit, when is the next class again? :)

nicki
07-11-2008, 2:27 PM
Hopefully Heller will force open carry as a right.

I bet that will move national ccw recpriocity along real fast.

Open carry marches here in California will motivate sheriffs to start issuing, that with combined civil rights suits for violation of 2nd and 14 th amendment violations on ccw practices should do the trick.

Depending on how the election goes, perhaps we will get a Fed DOJ who will prosecute state and local officials for constitutional rights violations.

If this happens, the Utah issue will be moot.

To those who say the above won't happen, you are probably the same guys who said a Heller case could not win either.

Nicki

artherd
07-11-2008, 2:52 PM
Open carry marches are just as likely to get open carry listed under the current CCW regime as permit-only activity.

Be very careful here, and remember what happened to the black panthers when they tried the same.

Waving a gun in the face of a neutural party is a great way to turn them anit

We need to work intellectually, and we're doing a very good job of it if I do say so.

Hopefully Heller will force open carry as a right.

I bet that will move national ccw recpriocity along real fast.

Open carry marches here in California will motivate sheriffs to start issuing, that with combined civil rights suits for violation of 2nd and 14 th amendment violations on ccw practices should do the trick.

Depending on how the election goes, perhaps we will get a Fed DOJ who will prosecute state and local officials for constitutional rights violations.

If this happens, the Utah issue will be moot.

To those who say the above won't happen, you are probably the same guys who said a Heller case could not win either.

Nicki

GuyW
07-12-2008, 3:53 PM
Open carry marches are just as likely to get open carry listed under the current CCW regime as permit-only activity.


Yeah! Heller be damned - those anti's are gonna do bad things to us 'uns...

CA_Libertarian
07-12-2008, 7:42 PM
Open carry marches are just as likely to get open carry listed under the current CCW regime as permit-only activity.

Be very careful here, and remember what happened to the black panthers when they tried the same.

Waving a gun in the face of a neutural party is a great way to turn them anit

We need to work intellectually, and we're doing a very good job of it if I do say so.

I've been openly carrying for a year now.

I'm not a member of a openly hostile and violent group.

I've NEVER waved my gun in anybody's face.

I do this all with well-thought, logical reasons. I'm an intelligent, educated person, so I don't need anybody's approval of my intellect.

The view you have expressed here is narrow, and it is harmful to the cause of gun rights in general. I don't know your personal view on OLLs, but they seem to be popular on this forum. It just so happens that OLLs are a great example to illustrate my point.

Open carry and OLL building are similar in many ways. Building an OLL is legal, yet controversial with LE and people on the fence. OLLs are constant targets of LE and DAs. OLLs could potentially cause the legislature to get pissed and pass stricter legislation. Ask yourself if you would discourage people from building OLLs, and ask yourself if your view of open carry is correct.

I don't own any rifles, and don't have any plans to build an OLL in the near future. However, I will support anybody who is victimized by the criminal justice system for exercising their right to build one.

We need to stand together and support ALL gun rights, whether you own an OLL or not, whether you open carry or not. These are rights being exercised within the letter of the law. If you fear your legislature's ability to trample your rights then you've admitted defeat. You're lying down waiting to get stepped on.

artherd
07-12-2008, 10:07 PM
Yeah! Heller be damned - those anti's are gonna do bad things to us 'uns...

Look, I'm for open carry, but rallying to the streets with guns in holster is just not going to play well with the mass audience.

These people have just started coming around from "all guns are bad!" to "well, after katrina and now this court thing, and all that, I guess it's OK if you really want one, you can have one. I just don't want to see it cause I still get all icky inside".

We're all looking for an outlet for our pent up energy, let's spend it on something that is going to WORK, rather than SCARE OUR TIMID ALLIES. My $0.02


Think of it like gay rights... If you're like most people you're cool with it, but don't exactly want THIS DUDE IN YOUR FACE ALL DAY EVERY DAY. http://bp0.blogger.com/_Tp2OtaEFBhw/RepkQ_e14KI/AAAAAAAAAzw/kyRGjNKcWHA/s400/really-gay-costume.jpg


As for my feelings on OLL... let's just say I see this guy looking back at me every morning when I brush my teeth.
http://cdglobal.net/gun/AR_4-blur-crop-600.jpg

csmintel
07-12-2008, 10:46 PM
Open carry marches are just as likely to get open carry listed under the current CCW regime as permit-only activity.

Be very careful here, and remember what happened to the black panthers when they tried the same.

Waving a gun in the face of a neutural party is a great way to turn them anit

We need to work intellectually, and we're doing a very good job of it if I do say so.



AGREE WITH YOU 100% artherd!

nobody_special
07-12-2008, 11:40 PM
Open carry marches are just as likely to get open carry listed under the current CCW regime as permit-only activity.

After Heller is incorporated, such a law will not stand.

Think of it like gay rights... If you're like most people you're cool with it, but don't exactly want THIS DUDE IN YOUR FACE ALL DAY EVERY DAY.

True, but nobody is talking about intrusively going door-to-door while OC'ing. And isn't there some annual big gay pride parade in SF?

CA_Libertarian
07-13-2008, 1:23 AM
The analogy of gay rights to gun rights is accurate. I'm surprised you come to different conclusions on how they should be handled. As nobody_special pointed out, gay rights activists do have parades. Why shouldn't us gun owners?

Hell, I say let's combine the two! Aren't homosexuals the most likely targets of hate crimes? Sounds like they need more guns!

Python2
07-13-2008, 7:06 AM
We need to stand together and support ALL gun rights, whether you own an OLL or not, whether you open carry or not. These are rights being exercised within the letter of the law. If you fear your legislature's ability to trample your rights then you've admitted defeat. You're lying down waiting to get stepped on.

Amen!

dwtt
07-13-2008, 9:01 AM
Hell, I say let's combine the two! Aren't homosexuals the most likely targets of hate crimes? Sounds like they need more guns!

there's a group called the Pink Pistols. Look them up and get involved. You'll be surprised at what you'll find. The Pink Pistols have been discussed here in other threads.

hoffmang
07-13-2008, 9:11 AM
The analogy of gay rights to gun rights is accurate. I'm surprised you come to different conclusions on how they should be handled. As nobody_special pointed out, gay rights activists do have parades. Why shouldn't us gun owners?

Hell, I say let's combine the two! Aren't homosexuals the most likely targets of hate crimes? Sounds like they need more guns!

Simply because marching before incorporation cases are final in the circuit is exposing the marchers and movement to risks without a lot of room for reward. We've waited 40+ years for open or concealed carry. Can we wait 18-24 months worst case?

-Gene

Gray Peterson
07-13-2008, 4:05 PM
I have to agree: Open carry MARCHES won't generally do a darned thing at this point. The tide is pretty turned against us in this environment. Though certainly there are comparisons to be made, it shouldn't be made in all circumstances. Though some may disagree with me, being gay is not a choice, whereas carrying a firearm is a very personal choice (along the lines of religion). Same analogy, different method.

Speaking on this as an open carrier and a gay man, and "out" on both being gay and a gun owner.