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View Full Version : Config? SA vs. DA; Safety vs. Decocker?


Brooke
07-09-2008, 12:31 PM
Thought I knew which camp I was in, but shooting my new Colt 380 (SA, safety) has me re-thinking. Rather than go through my (boring) thoughts, let me hear yours ...

Is a SA (in)appropriate for certain tasks? In a DA, what issues make one choose between safety and decocker.

I know I'll get a lot of "personal preference" replies, but I'm really interested to know if there is a reason to get a safety over a decocker, or a reason not to go SA.

TIA

bohoki
07-09-2008, 1:11 PM
i prefer having a decocking safety like the 92fs but i take what i can get and i like my 1911 and sig 226

ooh my baby eagle has a decocking safety like the beretta 92fs almost forgot abou that one

so if the option for a decocker exists i would not attempt to remove it infavor of a cocked and safety

zinfull
07-09-2008, 1:16 PM
I was always a safety person. Then once during training of 3 sec shoots from the holster my gun was not ready. I decocked the gun but did not return the gun to off safety. One in a million but in real world in can be a big problem. I like the Sig P6 setup, da/sa with decocker and no safety.

Jerry

TannerBoyl
07-09-2008, 1:54 PM
Is a SA (in)appropriate for certain tasks? In a DA, what issues make one choose between safety and decocker.


It depends on the operator. If the operator was well trained with an SA pistol (like the 1911) then I can't imagine under what circumstances that style pistol would not meet its requirements. Personally, I don't feel at ease keeping a pistol with the hammer back for home defense, so I find myself sticking with DA/SA autos and keeping the 1911s in the safe. Just a personal preference.

One reason why safeties are chosen over decockers is the feeling of security. If you have to deactivate a safety before you fire, this may put some minds at ease. It is another step in preventing accidental discharge. The way I see it, if you treat all pistols as loaded guns and always practice proper safe handling, then you should never need an external safety on a DA/SA pistol. If an external safety helps someone who is on the fence about firearms feel more secure then I'm all for them using one. Personally, I prefer knowing that my pistol is ready to go without worrying about deactivating a safety (which is why I prefer my SIGs). To each their own.

trinydex
07-09-2008, 5:04 PM
some le prefer double action because it ensures that every shot is very deliberate. an officer is presumably responsible for each shot. double action accuracy would have to be trained as much as single action pull accuracy would.

single action with safety has to be trained too.

What Just Happened?
07-09-2008, 5:10 PM
I feel unsafe manually decocking my CZ SP-01 for USPSA, but them's the rules for Production.

M. Sage
07-09-2008, 5:14 PM
Depends somewhat on the SA handgun, too. My P220 SAO trigger isn't exactly light. It's short and crisp (and lovely), but you have to want to pull it.

I'm not much of a believer in the "deliberate trigger pull" thing, because if you don't want to pull the trigger, your finger shouldn't be on it.

On a DA handgun, I feel that a seperate safety (like Beretta) is silly. If it's DAO, no safety catch needed, a Glock-like safety is more than enough. If it's DA/SA a de-cocker is what you need.

Maybe it's because I cut my teeth on DA revolvers. I have yet to shoot a DA revolver that has a safety on it. Why? Because DA doesn't need a safety, and hasn't in the 130 or so years since DA was invented.

Note that some SA handguns actually have two safety mechanisms. The 1911 has the safety catch, and the grip safety. More than safe enough...

Oh, and if your handgun has a safety, disengaging the safety should be practiced as part of the draw stroke. Make it second-nature.

Forgot that the title asks for SA vs. DA preference, too. I usually prefer SA. A lot of DA guns, I have trouble snap-shooting targets. That long pull is kind of a waste, IMO...

SeANMcBAY
07-10-2008, 2:46 AM
I like SA/DA with the decocker like on my P6. The idea of carrying a gun with the hammer cocked all the time just would make me feel uneasy. I also would rather have a heavier trigger pull then a manual safety button.

What other SA/DA with decockers are there other then Sigs?

railroader
07-10-2008, 6:32 AM
Around the house I keep a ruger p97 loaded. It has a decocker and it goes bang every time. Guns with decockers don't need safeties, they have a long heavy 1st pull. I have other handguns but the ruger is very safe and simple for my wife if she needs to use it when I'm not around. Now if it was just me I would probably keep my glock 17 loaded. It holds twice the ammo of the ruger. Mark

sammy
07-10-2008, 6:56 AM
You should have a poll. I perfer a 1911 style saftey over all. It is very natural ride your thumb on the safety turning it off while drawing and I allways keep my finger off the trigger untill I have a sight picture and am ready to fire. I like Glocks as well but the 1911 just feels better to me so that is what I train with. The DA/SA saftey system does not work well with me. In an emergency I can see myself having big problems with this system.

maxicon
07-10-2008, 8:06 AM
My preference is for a DA/SA with no safety and a decocker.

IMO, a safety's just another thing to go wrong at the wrong moment, especially if you shoot a lot of different guns in a lot of different configurations like I do. The last thing I want to do in a crisis is think about the operation of my defense weapon.

My primary defense handgun is the CZ75B, which has a long DA first pull, then lighter (but not 1911 light) SA pulls. My accuracy is very good with this, and the risk of my accidentally setting of a round if I step on the cat's tail at 3am is low.

I'd rather it have a decocker and no safety at all (I don't do cocked-and-locked), but I've been manually decocking guns for many years with no issues. Still, a decocker is one less thing to go wrong.

I agree with SeANMcBAY - the P6 is a pretty optimal, IMO, except for that awful DA trigger pull. If my CZ75Bs had that setup and a light rail, I'd be completely happy with them.

1911su16b870
07-10-2008, 10:11 AM
For guys that are loading and unloading every day/shift, the decockers of the 92 and 226 are really nice.

Black Majik
07-10-2008, 11:50 AM
I know I'll get a lot of "personal preference" replies, but I'm really interested to know if there is a reason to get a safety over a decocker, or a reason not to go SA.

TIA

I think that's the answer right there. There really isn't a specific type of action that rules the roost. Generally I associate single actions with target/bullseye oriented shooters, DA/LDA/DA/SA tyle actions with more defensive oriented shooters.

But, it comes down to personal preference. For myself, I prefer single action pistols with a safety. Some prefer their weapons without a safety keeping it "minimalistic." I like my pistols to have relatively light triggers, and I prefer the idea of a manual safety. Really a non-issue since it should be instinctual to snick of that safety on the draw. I ride the safety, like many others so it's easily disengaged on the draw. I have no problems keeping a pistol cocked and locked.

DA/SA is my next preference to carry. I like the idea of a heavier double action on the first shot. But honestly, this will range pretty low on the range/plinking list in its intended form. The DA/SA platform takes getting used to adjusting to the two types of trigger pulls, just like learning to swipe the safety on the draw. The two types of triggers can become confusing without proper training or range time.

DAO/LDA guns. Pros are consistent trigger pulls, no safety, and comes on popular platforms. Most notably, Glock. They're becoming more popular with both HK and SIG coming into the game with their proprietary DAO type actions. I have to say I was quite impressed by the DAK action. Very smooth and easy to shoot. This ranks lowest on my preference for carry, and in stock form lowest on range time. For range plinking, I prefer SA first, and prefer shooting the SA portion of a DA/SA gun. But it's incredibly easy to lighten up a Glock trigger, making it preferrable to the DA/SA type pistols. Otherwise, I'll take a DA/SA gun over a LEM or DAK action for general plinking.

My adjusted $0.02

trinydex
07-10-2008, 12:27 PM
I like SA/DA with the decocker like on my P6. The idea of carrying a gun with the hammer cocked all the time just would make me feel uneasy. I also would rather have a heavier trigger pull then a manual safety button.

What other SA/DA with decockers are there other then Sigs?

the hk usp

Black Majik
07-10-2008, 12:45 PM
What other SA/DA with decockers are there other then Sigs?

Quick list..

HK USP
HK P2000
HK P30
Walther P99
Walther PPK
Beretta 92FS
Beretta PX4
CZ75B
FNP
BHP SFS

tonelar
07-10-2008, 1:57 PM
then there's the story of the off duty cop carrying a cocked and locked 1911
in line at the bank when the guy ifo him pulls a gun and yells "this is a robbery"
he pulls his gun and tells the bg to "drop it"
bg turns around and shoots our would be hero
later on
officials on the scene confirm the victim didn't thumb his safety down


s'why IMHO;
"The only good external safety is a well trained trigger finger."

Bobula
07-10-2008, 2:03 PM
I HATE decocking safeties.

CowtownBallin
07-10-2008, 2:21 PM
I agree with SeANMcBAY - the P6 is a pretty optimal, IMO, except for that awful DA trigger pull. If my CZ75Bs had that setup and a light rail, I'd be completely happy with them.

Then you want the P-01 or the SP-01 Tactical if you want full size...but it's a big waste in CA, 'cause you can't have the 19rd mags that come with it :(

trinydex
07-10-2008, 5:49 PM
the hk usp

oooh and the baby eagle too

RECCE556
07-10-2008, 7:54 PM
then there's the story of the off duty cop carrying a cocked and locked 1911 in line at the bank when the guy ifo him pulls a gun and yells "this is a robbery" he pulls his gun and tells the bg to "drop it"
bg turns around and shoots our would be hero later on officials on the scene confirm the victim didn't thumb his safety down

s'why IMHO
"The only good external safety is a well trained trigger finger."

That's called BAD TRAINING. On a 1911, you ALWAYS ride the thumb safety (known as "high thumb") I'm so trained in doing this that I high thumb with my other, non-thumb safety pistols.

SAO Cocked and Locked is only way to fly IMO.