PDA

View Full Version : I just broke a hammer mounted firing pin on a revolver :(


rivviepop
07-05-2008, 9:01 PM
From the "oh you gotta be sh*tt*ng me" department... just finished cleaning a 686 from the Shoot-n-Q today and picked up a model 65 to see if I wanted to change out the trigger rebound spring, threw a few snaps in it and cranked the trigger a few times paying attention to the reset, when....

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w21/rivviepop/snv11581_800.jpg

*sigh*

savasyn
07-05-2008, 9:05 PM
Doh!!!
Sorry about the pin, that sucks!

dfletcher
07-05-2008, 9:08 PM
Well, would have broken sooner or later. Plan on replacing it yourself or sending to Smith? Does their lifetime guarantee apply here?

Is replacing it drilling out the old rivet & staking in the new?

rivviepop
07-05-2008, 9:52 PM
Well, would have broken sooner or later. Plan on replacing it yourself or sending to Smith? Does their lifetime guarantee apply here?

I was kinda hoping someone around here would know if this was a covered part. :) If I'm going to replace it I might as well put in a more modern one with a hammer nose rebound spring (this is an older free floating nose) for better operation.

Is replacing it drilling out the old rivet & staking in the new?

That's what it looks like - I haven't looked in the shop manual yet, but gut instinct looks like it's a drill, replace and brass punch on a new rivet. I may just buy the parts and take 'em to a smith for the actual work, don't wanna jank up this particular revolver with my rookie work...

JTROKS
07-05-2008, 10:00 PM
rivvie, I've always wondered if those firing pins ever break. This is the first time I've seen one.

bohoki
07-05-2008, 10:27 PM
wow that is brutal

this is a good reason that explains why we need more than one gun to people

rivviepop
07-06-2008, 7:49 AM
I must've been dreaming about this - I woke up with the first thought in my head "hey wait, I have a model 64 with a bad frame lug. I wonder if I could just swap the entire hammer assembly between the guns?" Then I'd just have one really broken gun, and one working fine. :)

Time to go dig through some part lists and see if they're the same part(s)...

rivviepop
07-06-2008, 8:25 AM
Sweeeet, according to the parts list the 64/65 hammers/noses/rivets are interchangeable, they're the exact same parts:


M64 (p.47)
==========
049070000 $48.41 X HAMMER ASSY, SS .265 - (OBS)
049080000 $48.41 O HAMMER ASSY, SS .375 - (OBS)
075800000 $16.50 X HAMMER NOSE
057700000 $1.32 X HAMMER NOSE RIVET

M65 (p.49)
==========
049070000 $48.41 X HAMMER ASSY, SS .265 - (OBS)
049080000 $48.41 O HAMMER ASSY, SS .375 - (OBS)
075800000 $16.50 X HAMMER NOSE
057700000 $1.32 X HAMMER NOSE RIVET


It's still going to run me $20 to fix, but at least I can queue that fix up with something else already in maintenance mode and not have two soldiers down at the same time. Out of curiosity, does anyone know what 'OBS' means there in the parenthesis?

eaglemike
07-06-2008, 8:39 AM
obsolete........... (just the part number most likely)

There is probably a replacement part. The S&W people are pretty good at helping. Give them a call in the morning.

all the best,

Mike

kurac
07-06-2008, 8:44 AM
You are lucky its a S&W and not a Colt otherwise you would really have a tough time finding parts.

rivviepop
07-06-2008, 9:02 AM
You are lucky its a S&W and not a Colt otherwise you would really have a tough time finding parts.

Do people actually shoot their Colts? I thought everyone just put them in a glass case and looked at them in the safe... :)

hawk1
07-06-2008, 9:18 AM
Do people actually shoot their Colts? I thought everyone just put them in a glass case and looked at them in the safe... :)

Yes we shoot our Colts, it's just they never break parts like that....:D

What's up with the snap cap(s)? Did they cause the break? I'd double check them to be sure that wasn't the reason the pin broke.
That is, other than it breaking because it's just a S&W...:p

eaglemike
07-06-2008, 9:24 AM
Yes we shoot our Colts, it's just they never break parts like that....:D

What's up with the snap cap(s)? Did they cause the break? I'd double check them to be sure that wasn't the reason the pin broke.
That is, other than it breaking because it's just a S&W...:p
My goodness, you don't want to go there. I don't think I've ever seen a Colt at the International Revolver Championship. There might have been one, maybe....
I've seen several Pythons in the past that really needed help, a much higher percentage than the S&W's I've seen... :)

The OP's part might have been damaged in the past by DPO's, dry firing w/o snap caps.

all the best,

Mike

rivviepop
07-06-2008, 10:51 AM
Yeah I presume it's by previous owners, as usual this came to me used but in great shape. The firing pin bushing doesn't look that whacked around from dry-fire-no-snaps, but who knows - it could be something as simple as some weak initial forging, the sheer is awful clean if you ask me. "It was clean. Too clean." :)

I like using the Tipton snap caps, they have a soft brass 'primer' with a spring that gives but not too much give. Mechanically they seem like a smart design to provide enough resistance and give without damaging a firing pin, haven't caused any problems before.

daemonite
07-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Tipton caps are good, I used them for over and over in 5 guns so far for atleast 1500 firings. No damages to my guns.

chickenfried
07-06-2008, 11:00 AM
I've bought snap caps in the past. Now I think they're more snake oil than necessity.

rivviepop
07-06-2008, 11:03 AM
I've bought snap caps in the past. Now I think they're more snake oil than necessity.

In a hammer mounted firing pin design, they aren't - they prevent the forward motion of the hammer nose from smashing into the firing pin bushing mounted in the frame, preventing damage to both parts. The snap caps provide resistance-then-give so that the momentum (ergo force) is diminished, bringing it to the designers' specs on how the gun was supposed to be used with live ammo with real primers.

L-2
07-06-2008, 11:27 AM
I was kinda hoping someone around here would know if this was a covered part. :) If I'm going to replace it I might as well put in a more modern one with a hammer nose rebound spring (this is an older free floating nose) for better operation.

My firing pin broke on my 66-2 last year. As I recall, overnight shipping via UPS was $58. I don't know if S&W would have provided a call tag or not as I didn't think to ask, nor did the customer service person offer, though. I think the return bill was $44, but don't know if that was just return shipping.

I don't believe I was charged for the labor & parts of a new firing pin, plus one of those firing pin springs, which my 66-2 did not have, either, but it does now. I don't know if my should have orginally had the spring or not, but it did not have one when I got it used.

I also don't believe it was due to any lifetime warranty but it had been in within a year before that for a major cylinder/barrel end-play job. My gun was bought used and I believe it's built from the mid to late 80's (ANAxxxx).

eaglemike
07-06-2008, 11:53 AM
It would be pretty easy to replace the hammer assembly. It's a little easier on the older guns than the current MIM parts. Unless you have a super tuned up competition gun, it should be a total drop-in part. Check function for safety, and you're done.

all the best,

Mike

hawk81
07-06-2008, 12:34 PM
Send it back to smith and wesson. They will fix it free of charge. Oh, and they will pay the shipping.

rivviepop
07-07-2008, 12:15 PM
Sadly, it is not a warranty repair item any longer, just called; purchased a new nose, 2 springs and 2 rivets (*) and a M64 frame lug I needed anyways for a grand total of like $21 or something. Rivets are on backorder right now, so it'll be a bit until I get the parts. I'm pretty sure I could drill that old rivet out myself and punch down the new one, any advice on something not to do? I'll look in Jerry's shop manual when I get a chance, see what he has to say.

(*) turns out you can just add the hammer nose rebound spring to any existing hammer/nose combo and it just works, so I'm going to upgrade the M64 nose with a spring as well

dfletcher
07-07-2008, 4:40 PM
Sadly, it is not a warranty repair item any longer, just called; purchased a new nose, 2 springs and 2 rivets (*) and a M64 frame lug I needed anyways for a grand total of like $21 or something. Rivets are on backorder right now, so it'll be a bit until I get the parts. I'm pretty sure I could drill that old rivet out myself and punch down the new one, any advice on something not to do? I'll look in Jerry's shop manual when I get a chance, see what he has to say.

(*) turns out you can just add the hammer nose rebound spring to any existing hammer/nose combo and it just works, so I'm going to upgrade the M64 nose with a spring as well

I'd be interested to know how it turns out - I've been fiddling with Smiths since about 1975, never replaced a firing pin. My guess is that the correct size drill will be that which is just large enough to split the rivet. In effect, you don't drill out the entire width of the hole in the hammer, just enough to make the rivet separate vertically. And I think a pair of ball bearings would be just right for seating the rivets.

One thing I'm not certain of - when you start to drill I wonder what keeps the rivet from "spinning" in the hammer hole?

Ah - all this high tech hammer and drill and talk of rivets has me geared up to fit a new hand on my New Service. :rolleyes:

Good luck.

rivviepop
07-07-2008, 5:49 PM
Looks pretty simple, I found two threads over on S&W forums:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/530103904/m/1581015452?r=8981025452#8981025452

http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/580103904/m/8841021762?r=4481053172#4481053172

I just checked the punches and I don't have a conical, just flat - I'll need to pick one of those up and it should be a snap. ("oh no, please don't make me own more tools!" *arm twisting* :) )

rivviepop
07-27-2008, 7:45 AM
The saga continues - the rivets finally came from S&W, I took the hammer to a smith yesterday who offered to tap it in for me while I wait. He gets it apart... "hey guy, you have a problem - they sent you the wrong hammer nose. This is for a L-frame."

#@%^&$%. sigh.

QuarterBoreGunner
07-27-2008, 8:54 AM
"hey guy, you have a problem - they sent you the wrong hammer nose. This is for a L-frame."

This sounds soooooo like Frank. Is it?

rivviepop
07-27-2008, 9:04 AM
This sounds soooooo like Frank. Is it?

Hah, yeah. :) Hey he's got a nice little snub model 36 sitting on the consignment shelf, btw - a few scratches but in nice shape, I think $425? Worth a look if you're interested.

HowardW56
07-27-2008, 9:13 AM
rivvie, I've always wondered if those firing pins ever break. This is the first time I've seen one.


I had one break 20 years ago, but I just dropped in another hammer,,,

HowardW56
07-27-2008, 9:16 AM
Yeah I presume it's by previous owners, as usual this came to me used but in great shape. The firing pin bushing doesn't look that whacked around from dry-fire-no-snaps, but who knows - it could be something as simple as some weak initial forging, the sheer is awful clean if you ask me. "It was clean. Too clean." :)

I like using the Tipton snap caps, they have a soft brass 'primer' with a spring that gives but not too much give. Mechanically they seem like a smart design to provide enough resistance and give without damaging a firing pin, haven't caused any problems before.

I thought the same think when mine broke, the surface looked crystallized, like too much heat treating or a flaw when manufactured, or both...

liketoshoot
07-27-2008, 9:17 AM
Not that it will make you feel any better,but I had just purchased a Rossi 357 and was test firing with live ammo at the down stairs range when the fireing pin broke, FFL took back the gun and gave me another one, this one would not lock up and missed fired 4 times on two cylinder reloads, so he gave me another one, same thing, we both decided at that point that Rossi svcked and I bought my first Ruger instead.

HowardW56
07-27-2008, 9:37 AM
Not that it will make you feel any better,but I had just purchased a Rossi 357 and was test firing with live ammo at the down stairs range when the fireing pin broke, FFL took back the gun and gave me another one, this one would not lock up and missed fired 4 times on two cylinder reloads, so he gave me another one, same thing, we both decided at that point that Rossi svcked and I bought my first Ruger instead.

Have you ever heard anyone say anything good about a Rossi?

JTROKS
07-27-2008, 9:54 AM
Have you ever heard anyone say anything good about a Rossi?

I actually have a Rossi 851 stainless in 38 spl. It's been shot but not as much as my Ruger. I think it shot some +P loads because it was one of my standby guns for a while. It is still shooting accurate and reliably up to now, although it gets practice/test firing of only 24 to 48 rounds every year now. Only thing I don't like about it is it pinches my trigger finger during fast double action shots.

hd0642
07-27-2008, 9:59 AM
brownells has them as well, $39 if you have a C&R license on file

rivviepop
07-27-2008, 10:13 AM
brownells has them as well, $39 if you have a C&R license on file

I'm hoping when I call S&W tomorrow that they send me another one for free, it was their screwup. Looking at my receipt now and matching it against the parts list for the M65, they sent me the hammer nose specifically for a 65-5 model (212390000) and not the hammer nose that fits all other models (075800000). I know for a fact I specifically said what part number I wanted and it was for a 65-3, so someone just made a mistake.

The hammer nose is only $16.50 btw, the hammer itself is what's $39 ($48 from S&W).

SnWnMe
07-27-2008, 8:09 PM
I broke the hammer nose on my 3" 60 (the original 38 spl full lug target model from the 90s). First FP breakage I've experienced. Smith shipped it (both ways) and fixed it for free. I like how their warranty works.