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View Full Version : It has begun...FFL's revolt against CA


berg
07-05-2008, 7:42 PM
See the statement in red: http://www.forthehunt.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104088696

This trend will grow.

USN CHIEF
07-05-2008, 7:44 PM
That sucks, but maybe it will be a good thing in the long run.

trashman
07-05-2008, 7:46 PM
:willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

As long as these guys care to lose business to large-scale retailers like Bud's Gunshop in KY -- who have said they will happily comply with the new, fairly trivial (if irritating) regs, my response is "sure - go ahead and spite thyself...."

In the meantime, I'll happily shop elsewhere.

--Neill

Corbin Dallas
07-05-2008, 7:46 PM
Can you blame them?

Restriction this, can't sell that, get approval to sell on the approved list before you sell...

If I were an out of state FFL, I'd say F-california too.

This has all been planned by our great leaders of this fine state.

Guns R Tools
07-05-2008, 7:49 PM
As long as they do same to law enforcements as well as regular citizens I got no problems.

jammer2k
07-05-2008, 7:56 PM
As long as they do same to law enforcements as well as regular citizens I got no problems.
+1 million, as long as it hurts the Libs and their 'the police will protect you' idiocy I am all for it. Maybe we should start a writing campaign to the manufacturers and distributers explaining why it is highly beneficial to them to boycott CA entirely (especially law enforcement) in order to get some real changes made here

Saigon1965
07-05-2008, 7:57 PM
They are ignorant. Don't want to make money, oh well.

Bukowski
07-05-2008, 8:11 PM
:banghead:

:gene:


:leaving:

NotSoFast
07-05-2008, 8:14 PM
I can't blame them. But I also won't be buying from them when I move back east later this year.

The state of California could care less and, to me, this is a slap in the face by the sellers on Gunbrokers to the owners in California. They are saying we are too much of a hassle to do business with.

Sorry, I don't deal with people like this.

jazman
07-05-2008, 8:29 PM
Yawn. Hell with them, their loss.

8200rpm
07-05-2008, 9:41 PM
They're nothing but dumb cu^t$ who don't care about providing support to the right of free men behind enemy lines.

These retailers are nothing more than lazy, selfish opportunistic leeches. They're no different than the cowardly FFL turds that support "assault weapon" and "high capacity magazine" bans.

daves100
07-05-2008, 9:56 PM
i understand that you will not sell to CA which is your right. but do us all a favor and please add this to your post. here is a gun shop that will still help you guys in CA. Bud's Gunshop in KY http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/index.php

Mikeb
07-05-2008, 10:10 PM
I like Bud , Buds no Fud...
I live for the day that the LAPD (or OPD)calls in an order for ammo and someone tells them
"You guys have so many weird laws and we can't afford enough lawyers to figure them out ,so just to be safe we don't sell anything to anybody".
every good gun owner knows, safety first.
take care
Mike

joe4702
07-05-2008, 10:10 PM
While I think the new regs are dumb, if an FFL doesn't want to take a few extra minutes to enter some info on a website, print a form and mail it with the gun, so be it. Other FFLs like Buds will get more business. I'm supporting Buds by buying from them since they are supporting us in CA.

Moonclip
07-06-2008, 2:53 AM
These retailers are nothing more than lazy, selfish opportunistic leeches. They're no different than the cowardly FFL turds that support "assault weapon" and "high capacity magazine" bans.

You live in "Ghetto Mesa" (is this Costa Mesa?) and say this? Gee, I wonder what FFL your talking about,LOL!

blackberg
07-06-2008, 3:03 AM
Isnt California one of the top markets for firearms, even with all the nonsense?

their loss
:cool:

-bb

p.s.
where did that insomnia thread go?

Moonclip
07-06-2008, 3:07 AM
Isnt California one of the top markets for firearms, even with all the nonsense?

their loss
:cool:

-bb

p.s.
where did that insomnia thread go?

Yes it is. Thats why some dealers jump thru the hoops, it's a huge market. The insomnia thread is in the off topic forum, see you there!

dfletcher
07-06-2008, 4:15 AM
This is exactly the effect the law was intended to have - gun control by inconvenience. The Democrats in Sacramanto won't even have to own up to it.

The proper response by out of state FFLs and CA residents should be to buy & ship more guns - to have the oposite effect than that desired by Sacramento. By doing that we would show them this sort of thing will not have the desired effect. Of course, buttholes like this only serve to encourage the CA Democrat legislature.

xdgregg
07-06-2008, 6:46 AM
I agree 100%.

Why would they want to get caught up in Calif's cluster f__k of laws when they can sell to someone else without the hassle?

Can you blame them?

Restriction this, can't sell that, get approval to sell on the approved list before you sell...

If I were an out of state FFL, I'd say F-california too.

This has all been planned by our great leaders of this fine state.

Vin496
07-06-2008, 7:39 AM
That's what these laws are intended to do, discourage sales from out of state.

In reality the new law isn't that big of a deal for out of state FFLs. All they have to do is go online and register their info, for free. It probably takes a whopping 10 minutes max, then whenever they sell a gun to a California resident, they go online enter the info, which probably consist of make/model/serial #, and what FFL it's going to. Get the instant approval # and print it out and throw it in the package. All for free and adds what, a minute or two to the process.

The thing is, most people from other States, hear "More California Laws" and they say F IT!!!

I can't wait for the day when vendors stop dealing with the State itself, "Oh your SWAT team wants product X, Sorry we can't sell you that."

xdgregg
07-06-2008, 8:18 AM
It may only take a minute, but it's another CA hoop to jump through... one FFL on Gunbroker will still ship to CA, but is now charging an extra $25.00 admin fee for his time.

I'd love to see all of the gun manufacturers boycott the "safety list", including selling to LE.


That's what these laws are intended to do, discourage sales from out of state.

In reality the new law isn't that big of a deal for out of state FFLs. All they have to do is go online and register their info, for free. It probably takes a whopping 10 minutes max, then whenever they sell a gun to a California resident, they go online enter the info, which probably consist of make/model/serial #, and what FFL it's going to. Get the instant approval # and print it out and throw it in the package. All for free and adds what, a minute or two to the process.

The thing is, most people from other States, hear "More California Laws" and they say F IT!!!

I can't wait for the day when vendors stop dealing with the State itself, "Oh your SWAT team wants product X, Sorry we can't sell you that."

X-NewYawker
07-06-2008, 8:25 AM
This surprises anyone? this was the IDEA of the law. To stop us from buying form gunbroker and shotgun news and whatever.

Living here is like the death of a thousand cuts...

hawk1
07-06-2008, 9:21 AM
This surprises anyone? this was the IDEA of the law. To stop us from buying form gunbroker and shotgun news and whatever.

Living here is like the death of a thousand cuts...

+1 That was the intent of the law. Who cares what they say the reason was...

reggie 00
07-06-2008, 9:38 AM
I agree 100%.

Why would they want to get caught up in Calif's cluster f__k of laws when they can sell to someone else without the hassle?

Problem is i doubt a huge mass of people are going to be popping up in all the other states to make up for the loss or California sales.

They are going to have to rise up and fight it on their level. The FFL's are going to have to start complaining about loss of business and such.

You would almost want to make the argument its dening us firearms. Prejudice?

I hope the "good for the goose good for the gander" option rises up, cause thats really going to be the only way without a massive fight.

Shane916
07-06-2008, 12:55 PM
I would imagine CA has a large amount of firearms purchased online from out of state dealers. By not selling to us they seem to be hurting themselves more then us. I would speculate many of them will eventually sign up with the CFLC program and sell to Californians. If not, they truly are missing out on a significant amount of purchasers that other CA compliant friendly dealers will take advantage off. Luckily we have excellent vendors here on CalGuns . Support them before you support others :)

UBFRAGD
07-06-2008, 2:06 PM
"Living here is like the death of a thousand cuts... "
That gave me goosebumps. That's way better than "creeping incrementalism".

CALI-gula
07-06-2008, 7:59 PM
Honestly?

I can't remember the last time I bought a gun off of Gunbroker anyway. I've been too busy spending my firearm money on OLL and OLR's the past 2.5 years. Anything not OLL or OLR that I bought during that time was simply because it was in my way at the dealer with whom I had been completing an OLL or OLR transfer/purchase and forced to notice it, or I saw it up for sale here on Calguns.

I have yet to buy a gun from any other online source other than here, since 10/2005 when I became aware of the OLL/OLR issue - (which includes, Gunbroker, Auction Arms, Gunsamerica, and all other forums like Biggerhammer, Highroad, or AR15.com. ).

And I stopped going to many dealers that didn't deal in OLLs and OLRs not because I disliked them as a dealer, but simply because they didn't carry in their store that for which I had been in the market.

If I need to pick up some bananas or Champagne, I don't shop at a Toyota Dealership to do it. If they did, I'd probably find my feet at the local Toyota Dealership 100 times more than the rate at which I do now. Likewise, I'm not protesting Toyota when I go to Ralph's for bananas or Champagne. And similarly, if some such gun store does not carry OLLs or OLRs, it's not out of protest; I'm merely not going to those stores because I can get that AND all my other gun supply needs at OLL/OLR friendly dealers.

So this dealer on Gunbroker? It's unlikely I would have been custom to his business anyway.

.

Gator Monroe
07-06-2008, 8:07 PM
This surprises anyone? this was the IDEA of the law. To stop us from buying form gunbroker and shotgun news and whatever.

Living here is like the death of a thousand cuts...

Then Imagine President Obamas machette and those cuts ?:eek:

macguyver77
07-06-2008, 9:14 PM
What everybody in the entire country does not understand is that California has long been the leader in setting precedents that other states adopt and follow. Look at medical use marijuana and the legalization of gay marriages and auto emissions standards, just to name a few... Once California changes the rest of the country will follow (or fall depends on what side of the fence you are on). These dealers need to understand that if they don't stand up and fight this, they will be in the same situation in their state before long. It might take 10 or 15 years but it will happen. They must flush this concept of "It's a California thing". Thoughts?? Am I way off here??

AraiGuma
07-06-2008, 9:47 PM
I'd love to see all of the gun manufacturers boycott the "safety list", including selling to LE.

I really like your idea. Let's invite all firearm manufactures and dealers in US to boycott their sale to CA including LE's. After a year or so, Sacramento will finally (even with their tiny little brain) realize that they crossed the line.

Yes its sad, but blame is on us and not on them. I would do the same if I were the out of state FFL. It may be a few extra minutes, but I would say it's not worth the effort simply because those are the people who is buying an already cheap Glock or SIG for extra $50 discount...

djp7558
07-06-2008, 10:12 PM
Passive pukes...all of us!!!
we allow it to happen!...we expect it to happen!...and when it does...all we can say is..I TOLD YOU SO!
How many Californians own firearms? ...How many of us are N.R.A.members.
More than not i'd say!
Can we organize?.....YES!
Should we organize?....Our forefathers said "LETS FIGHT"...Should we do differently?
I say...Lets march on Sacramento.....
...........mabey sometime in September when its not so HOT!!
Check your date planners....whats good for you!

Its mighty hard to RABBLE-ROUSE around here!

Dan

smittty
07-06-2008, 10:53 PM
See the statement in red: http://www.forthehunt.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104088696

This trend will grow.

I read the new regulations and don't understand why the fuss. If they don't want to fill out a piece of paper and fax it in to the doj, so be it. We don't have to buy from them.

The doj is verifying the out of state ffl has a current license. I don't see anything negative about that. It doesn't add to the cost of a transfer or add time to the waiting period.

It only applies to ffl's shipping a gun to a california ffl. I t doesn't apply to a regular person shipping a rifle or handgun to your california ffl.

The larger ffls and distributers will still do business with california so don't worry about that.

Gunbroker won't ship to california, oh well, next!

smitty

dfletcher
07-06-2008, 11:15 PM
I read the new regulations and don't understand why the fuss. If they don't want to fill out a piece of paper and fax it in to the doj, so be it. We don't have to buy from them.

The doj is verifying the out of state ffl has a current license. I don't see anything negative about that. It doesn't add to the cost of a transfer or add time to the waiting period.

It only applies to ffl's shipping a gun to a california ffl. I t doesn't apply to a regular person shipping a rifle or handgun to your california ffl.

The larger ffls and distributers will still do business with california so don't worry about that.

Gunbroker won't ship to california, oh well, next!
smitty

It's not that GB won't ship, it's the individual sellers. While the big boys might do the additional paperwork (you're right, takes only a minute) the mid sized shop, the gun store that sells a bit on GB may not. Unfortunately those are the guys who tend to have what I want. So far as buying from individuals, that's OK - but if they send it from their FFL they have to get a number which, judging by the response, they won't do.

xdgregg
07-06-2008, 11:29 PM
The fuss is that it adds one more hurdle you have to jump to buy a handgun in this state... and since the out-of-state FFL has to go through this process on every gun he ships here, it's more than just verifying if he has a current license or not... it's keeping track of every handgun that enters the state... private O-O-S sellers will be next...




I read the new regulations and don't understand why the fuss.

The doj is verifying the out of state ffl has a current license. I don't see anything negative about that. It doesn't add to the cost of a transfer or add time to the waiting period.

xdgregg
07-06-2008, 11:45 PM
I'M IN!

You are right! And this is the perfect time! We finally have the backing of the supreme court.

Although I am a NRA member, I don't think we should totally rely on them to fight this... it's OUR fight!



Passive pukes...all of us!!!
we allow it to happen!...we expect it to happen!...and when it does...all we can say is..I TOLD YOU SO!
How many Californians own firearms? ...How many of us are N.R.A.members.
More than not i'd say!
Can we organize?.....YES!
Should we organize?....Our forefathers said "LETS FIGHT"...Should we do differently?
I say...Lets march on Sacramento.....
...........mabey sometime in September when its not so HOT!!
Check your date planners....whats good for you!

Its mighty hard to RABBLE-ROUSE around here!

Dan

Gryff
07-07-2008, 1:22 AM
See the statement in red: http://www.forthehunt.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=104088696

This trend will grow.

I expressed my sympathy to him that the extra 90 seconds needed to get the verification letter is just an unreasonable hassle. And I thanked him on behalf of our liberal state leaders for supporting their back door plan to eliminate firearm sales in the state.

But was it overboard to suggest that since he's on a role in supporting the liberal anti-gun effort that he vote for Obama?

dfletcher
07-07-2008, 7:22 AM
I expressed my sympathy to him that the extra 90 seconds needed to get the verification letter is just an unreasonable hassle. And I thanked him on behalf of our liberal state leaders for supporting their back door plan to eliminate firearm sales in the state.

But was it overboard to suggest that since he's on a role in supporting the liberal anti-gun effort that he vote for Obama?

Tried to sweet talk him I see. ;)

One reason these guys do this sort of thing is that it validates their "CA is nuts" perception. People are generally willing to do something when it reinforces an existing belief. Aside from that, what reason did we give them for continuing to sell to CA? These guys got a letter from CA DOJ saying "extra paperwork required" - did they get anything from a progun CA group explaining how easy it is? Did they get any "don't let the liberal gun control types chase you away" info? In short, did they get as a concerted effort from a CA gun rights or progun group anything to persuade them to continue selling?

Safe to say there are two things most FFL'ers don't like - more paperwork and more government oversight. They got both with this law.

The question was asked regarding how well the NRA is doing in CA. Perhaps some education and a rallying cry to our out of state FFL'ers is in order?

Springfield45
07-07-2008, 8:20 AM
If we really want to send a message to our California politicians, what we should do is not get mad at FFL's who boy-cot CA. What we should all do is get a FFL. If FFL requests/issues went up by 1000% after the steady decline of the last 15 years it would definitely turn some heads in Sacramento.

Guntech
07-07-2008, 8:46 AM
This is just another attempt by the liberals to restrict our constitutional right to bear arms, everyone go out and buy a gun to help remind the Firearm Industry that we appreciate them dealing with our stupid regulations!

If we really want to send a message to our California politicians, what we should do is not get mad at FFL's who boy-cot CA. What we should all do is get a FFL. If FFL requests/issues went up by 1000% after the steady decline of the last 15 years it would definitely turn some heads in Sacramento.
Reply With Quote

I second that even though none of us will get em lol

marc4
07-07-2008, 8:56 AM
It might be the OUT OF STATE FFL'S LOSS, but did you think WHO GAINS FROM THIS new law? Who supported this new law? Did the gun retailers speak out on this?
Its not about public safety, its about DOLLARS!

X-NewYawker
07-07-2008, 8:59 AM
It's NOT just gunbroker. The SMALLER/medium sized companies like DS arms are going to STOP selling guns into california because of the additional grief every one of these laws entails.

deleted by PC police
07-07-2008, 9:03 AM
If it were a revolt the FFL's would just ship the guns without approval. These guys that are unwilling to sell here are cowards.

dfletcher
07-07-2008, 9:08 AM
If it were a revolt the FFL's would just ship the guns without approval. These guys that are unwilling to sell here are cowards.


I don't know what if anything CA DOJ could do to an out of state FFL - anyone know or would ATF be involved? Would ATF even care? The result of an out of state FFL sending in a gun "un-numbered" would be the CA FFL refusing delivery, because I'd expect CA DOJ can do something to them. In fact, I'd expect sooner or later some poor CA FFL is going to get in hot water for accepting a gun without the CFLC number.

CALI-gula
07-07-2008, 9:24 AM
It's NOT just gunbroker. The SMALLER/medium sized companies like DS arms are going to STOP selling guns into california because of the additional grief every one of these laws entails.

Some already have. Some never did. But DS Arms - not likely; I am quite sure they will continue to seek whatever it is they can to Californians. In fact, with OLL and OLR combining with Heller, you may even see an increase in sales to CA from companies like DS Arms and other small to medium sized companies. If they are small, that is exactly the reason why they will seek out ways to continue sales to CA - they can't afford to lose such a large market. Now if there was a market to replace CA, say China suddenly reverses on itself, and allows everyone in the country the full right to keep and bear arms without question, then yes, I could see California becoming a non-entity overnight.

Their bottom-line sales and the CFO will eventually indicate "Yeah, we need to figure out how to do this CA DOJ/BOF verification thing - if not, it will hurt our sales tremendously."

Economics will always prevail over ideology, bad or good.

.

duenor
07-07-2008, 10:49 AM
It might be the OUT OF STATE FFL'S LOSS, but did you think WHO GAINS FROM THIS new law? Who supported this new law? Did the gun retailers speak out on this?
Its not about public safety, its about DOLLARS!

We (Entreprise Arms) did not support this.
We have no interest in any actions that might lead to the reduction of overall gun enthusiasm/ownership in our home state.

We are also vehemently, uncompromisingly, against any form of restrictions upon the second amendment.

yellowfin
07-07-2008, 10:52 AM
I don't know what if anything CA DOJ could do to an out of state FFL - anyone know or would ATF be involved? Would ATF even care? It is clear that the Bureau of Unmilitarized Longguns Lagers Spirits Handguns Incendiaries and Tobacco has hired themselves out as puppets of the Gucci shoe gremlins (activist and lawmaker counterpart to Jack Booted Thugs). The GSG's tell them to harass FFL's, so they do it.

Gryff
07-07-2008, 10:53 AM
Tried to sweet talk him I see. ;)

Yep. And his response?

"Maybe it's time for you guys in CA to quit putting up with the crap and send
your emails to your representatives instead of me."

I think that many of the out-of-state FFLs choose to see us as basic Californians (and therefore nutty) rather than under-seige gun owners.

marc4
07-07-2008, 11:23 AM
Originally Posted by marc4
It might be the OUT OF STATE FFL'S LOSS, but did you think WHO GAINS FROM THIS new law? Who supported this new law? Did the gun retailers speak out on this?
Its not about public safety, its about DOLLARS!

We (Entreprise Arms) did not support this.
We have no interest in any actions that might lead to the reduction of overall gun enthusiasm/ownership in our home state.

We are also vehemently, uncompromisingly, against any form of restrictions upon the second amendment.


Thanks you Enterprise Arms. You're one of the good guys that I fully trust. Have spoken to you guys personally before and you definetely are straight forward. I will be doing business with you.
Expect an incoming transfer from AZ FFL within two weeks.:) This AZ FFL is willing to order/transfer to California.

SONYEXEC
07-07-2008, 11:35 AM
I knew having a TX address & NV address would come in handy one day. I mean for other than tax & income purposes.

X-NewYawker
07-07-2008, 2:01 PM
Yep. And his response?

"Maybe it's time for you guys in CA to quit putting up with the crap and send
your emails to your representatives instead of me."

I think that many of the out-of-state FFLs choose to see us as basic Californians (and therefore nutty) rather than under-seige gun owners.

California is ONE state that is over 15% of the gun sale sin t he country 00 but they will stop selling here.

Frankly I've spoken to a lot of manufacturers who want to know what WE'RE gonna do about it -- when we're gonna rise up and throw the DEMs out of control of Sacramento -- when we're gonna go VOTE for once.

They're not cowards -- they don't see us fighting for our rights, why should they support us. (I don't mean just saying, "If a cop tries to take me OLL I'll fight back"
The microstamping and ammo laws alone will DESTROY the gun business here. Now we got Heller, we have to start lawsuits to reverse the crappy laws!

AND DON"T VOTE for Ross perot, Ron paul , Bob Barr or any other third party loonie that puts Barack Hussein Obema in the friggin white house!

QuickOnTheDraw
07-07-2008, 2:36 PM
I tried to purchase a rifle from Jensen Arms, whom I've bought from in the past! Here is how the communication went with them via email. I even talked with them on the phone after this email. They don't want to lose out on Ca money either, some out of state FFL's will listen and some won't. They realize that much of what they sell will go through FFL's like Lanworld and then on to Ca FFL's too, and they don't want to lose a good percentage of their business! They were real nice and freindly on the phone too, I wonder how much of their sales percentage wise is from California?

ME: I'm interested in This rifle will you ship to Ca
Jensen Arms: Unable to due to new CA legislation, we are not on the list...

ME:Thanks for replying, I understand the Ca legislation. Are you aware of how easy the the new system is? Once you've registered with Ca DOJ your recieve a # and all you do on the computer is type in your # and the FFL your sending to, they then give you a corrosponding number to ship with. That # identifies the gun coming in, and it is all done via computer, no waiting. I understand you reasoning that it's one more process to hassle with, but it's pretty simple. I hope you decide to ship to California in the future.

Jensen Arms:We are now set up to ship to CA, it really was that easy….
thanks.
It took them less than an hour to sign up!

tonelar
07-07-2008, 3:15 PM
they're FEDERALLY licensed
The State of CA is overstepping its bounds by interfering with businesses operating under fed licenses.
CA needs to be shown that 2A applies to state govts as well as the fed.

its good to see some oos ffls aren't turning their backs on us, however I'd rather see a fight over this that would once and for all curb sacto lawmakers.

snobordr
07-07-2008, 3:18 PM
Hope the other out of state FFLs can read this and realize that while we do have a fight on our hands, we are not going into the night quietly and to punish us is both stupid, and akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

But go ahead, eliminate yourselves from the market place. When all is said and done (either we have won, the US has turned into CA gun-law wise, or I leave this state), I will remember those who have forsaken us in the past.

Oldnoob
07-07-2008, 4:29 PM
I tried to purchase a rifle from Jensen Arms, whom I've bought from in the past! Here is how the communication went with them...

ME: I'm interested in This rifle will you ship to Ca
Jensen Arms: Unable to due to new CA legislation, we are not on the list...

ME:Thanks for replying, I understand the Ca legislation. Are you aware of how easy the the new system is? Once you've registered with Ca DOJ your recieve a # and all you do on the computer is type in your # and the FFL your sending to, they then give you a corrosponding number to ship with. That # identifies the gun coming in, and it is all done via computer, no waiting. I understand you reasoning that it's one more process to hassle with, but it's pretty simple. I hope you decide to ship to California in the future.

Jensen Arms:We are now set up to ship to CA, it really was that easy….
thanks.
It took them less than an hour to sign up!

Good job man, I guess that's what we need to do from now on.

yzernie
07-07-2008, 6:16 PM
I understand the apprehension on the part of the out of state FFL's but dang man, it take less than 5 minutes to get registered and less than 3 mins to get a shipping number. IMHO, if losing the Cali business is more important to them than a couple minutes of their time, joke um. :rolleyes:

smittty
07-07-2008, 6:36 PM
I understand the apprehension on the part of the out of state FFL's but dang man, it take less than 5 minutes to get registered and less than 3 mins to get a shipping number. IMHO, if losing the Cali business is more important to them than a couple minutes of their time, joke um. :rolleyes:

It might be good for use here to draft a standard information short letter describing how easit it is to get registered. If each of us pick a county in we could fax it to say, 5 out of state FFL's each.

I'm willing to fax a letters to the few out of state FFL's that I know of.

Who's with me and who wants to take the first stab at drafting a very short letter? I think it needs to be very short because I've learned that people generally don't like to read.

Smitty

audiophil2
07-07-2008, 6:38 PM
Here is an email response I got from an FFL on gunbroker. I think this law will eventually be accepted, unfortunately just like all these other insane laws.

xxxx,
i literally just stepped through the door from 4th of july vaccation, if you want this gun, i'll sign up for the ca ffl application and get it transfered to you. let me know if you really want it.
thanks
xxxxx

> From: user2user@gunbroker.com
> To: aa-west@hotmail.com
> Subject: Question regarding GunBroker.com Item xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 00:42:23 -0400
>
> A message has been sent to you by a user of GunBroker.com, please scroll
> down to the MESSAGE FROM USER section below to read the text.

> --- begin message ---
>
> I am interested in this gun but I live in CA. This model is on the DOJ
> approved list but there is a new law requiring out of state FFLs to provide
> additional paperwork to the CA DOJ in order to get approval to ship
> firearms to CA FFLs. Would you be able to determine if this gun would be
> shipped to CA?
> This is the form that would need to be filled out:
> http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/cflcoverview.php
>
> xxxx

dfletcher
07-07-2008, 6:55 PM
Well what the hell - I sent the following e - mail to GB:


"I'm certain GB is aware of the new CA law requiring out of state FFL dealers obtain a transaction number before shipping a modern firearm to a CA FFL. Setting aside how foolish this law is, it seems there are many sellers on GB that have taken a "No Sales to CA" approach. While I agree that is their right as businessmen and FFL holders, I think that is bad for not only CA residents, but since CA represents approximately 15% of the gun market and is often the testing ground for new gun laws, bad for gun ownership in general. Success in CA can mean gun control efforts in other states.

As the largest on line gun sales website, is GB able and agreeable to inform their sellers of the particulars of this gun law? Specifically:
1) It does not effect individual sellers. An out of state non - FFL
seller can mail a modern gun directly to a CA FFL without using the
CA system.
2) Curio and Relic rifles mailed from and to C & R FFL holders are not
effected.
3) For FFL holders who must use the system, it takes about 30 seconds
to go on line and is free.

I realize this is an unwelcome additional effort on behalf of out of state FFL dealers who, as a group, dislike nothing so much as additional paperwork and government intrusion. CA residents are not asking out of state FFL dealers to fight for us, we're asking them to support us.

And if a public education effort on GB will educate and encourage some dealers to use the system - to show the gun control legislators that we are a strong market - and inform many sellers they are exempt, isn't that an appropriate approach and one that may yield positive results?"

silentsod
07-07-2008, 7:08 PM
I tried to purchase a rifle from Jensen Arms, whom I've bought from in the past!

I have family in CO, and we shop at Jensen's for our firearms (though we'll have to go elsewhere for varmint rifles meant for prairie dogs). They really are good to deal with, willing to shoot the breeze, helpful for setting up things I had no idea about (such as what sling system to set up an AR-15 with). The handgun and rifle I have to my name out in CO are both from them, and they'll certainly be getting my business if I move out there permanently.

The only downside is that CA won't let me have my rifle out here.

Glad to hear that they set themselves up to sell to CA (again).

djp7558
07-07-2008, 7:59 PM
So....When do we march on Sacramento?

Dan

Delfunk2015
07-08-2008, 3:55 PM
I just ordered a handgun from BUDS GUNS this morn. They said that all they need is a special number given by the DOJ to the FFL (or sumthing like that) to complete a transaction. Im drossing it through ADEs and they actually already had that special number on file =) so it was pretty much business as usual w/ no bs. So far BUDS is awesome with service but i havent got the gun in my hands yet so i cant say theyre all the way awesome ..yet (30 wait time+dross time blah blah) But yeah, as for ordering service, GURNEY, is the man to talk to, hes nice, patient,& informative, everything i want in a gun dealer.

dfletcher
07-08-2008, 4:12 PM
I just ordered a handgun from BUDS GUNS this morn. They said that all they need is a special number given by the DOJ to the FFL (or sumthing like that) to complete a transaction. Im drossing it through ADEs and they actually already had that special number on file =) so it was pretty much business as usual w/ no bs. So far BUDS is awesome with service but i havent got the gun in my hands yet so i cant say theyre all the way awesome ..yet (30 wait time+dross time blah blah) But yeah, as for ordering service, GURNEY, is the man to talk to, hes nice, patient,& informative, everything i want in a gun dealer.

My only bad on line experience was with Buds, maybe my experience can help. I ordered a Weatherby AccuMark in 340 WM - it was pictured & advertised as having a brake, which of course it didn't have so I had to spend $200.00 more to have one put on by the factory. Tried to settle with them 50/50, they said tough luck we sell too many guns on line to ID them correctly. Then they tried the "you better not do negative feedback" routine. So my suggestion would be to not accept delivery or do any paperwork until you receive & inspect the gun. Buds may be all hugs & kisses when they're taking your $$$, but ask for help & their S@B's.

Delfunk2015
07-08-2008, 4:24 PM
yeah, i think i read ur post on a different thread or site before i ordered, so when i ordered i REALLY had them specify and re confirm what i was ordering =) but its just a simple handgun with no bells or whistles so i dont think theyll f it up....hopefully..=/

BroncoBob
07-08-2008, 5:15 PM
My list of online gun dealers is rather short, it's either Lanworld, Davidsons or Buds. Todate I have purchased in the excess of 15 firearms over the years online.

javalos
07-08-2008, 5:56 PM
California did it to themselves, I hope this isn't just confined to civilians, police should be included as well. Handguns companies will pull their business out of California, thats a fact. In the future when it comes to handguns, CA will be a revolver only state, that's it. True, it only takes a minute for a out of state FFL to be approved, but that's more obstacles thrown up by this state. Perhaps that's what they want? More obstacles, less handgun companies that want to do business, a pre-text ban. Smart move. What's our move going to be?

djp7558
07-08-2008, 8:27 PM
[QUOTE=javalos;1343572]California did it to themselves,

When you say "CALIFORNIA" , Exactly whom do you mean?
Are WE not California?
Don't WE have a say in this?
Arent there MORE firearm owners here than not?
What will it take to WAKE US UP?
Or will we just snivel and whine untill all of our RIGHTS dissapear?

I'm truely dissapointed in all of us...we deserve all we get...we deserve nothing.

Dan

ar15barrels
07-09-2008, 12:07 AM
It might be the OUT OF STATE FFL'S LOSS, but did you think WHO GAINS FROM THIS new law? Who supported this new law? Did the gun retailers speak out on this?
Its not about public safety, its about DOLLARS!

The new law certainly helps the in-state dealers who buy through distributors.

javalos
07-09-2008, 7:35 AM
[QUOTE=javalos;1343572]California did it to themselves,

When you say "CALIFORNIA" , Exactly whom do you mean?
Are WE not California?
Don't WE have a say in this?
Arent there MORE firearm owners here than not?
What will it take to WAKE US UP?
Or will we just snivel and whine untill all of our RIGHTS dissapear?

I'm truely dissapointed in all of us...we deserve all we get...we deserve nothing.

Dan

The California Department of Justice has come up with new policies bypassing the legislature. Everyone knows that the CA DOJ is anti-gun just like Washington DC's mayor and police chief are anti-gun and make up new policies in regards to firearms. Its not a matter of if handgun companies will pull out, its a matter of when, STI has already pulled out of CA, Kimber is planning on letting their guns on the safety roster expire, many other handgun companies are going to follow Kimber. This into is relayed from gun dealers to me who in turn talk to the gun manufacturers who have pretty much had it with California.

This isn't entirely the peoples fault and yet in some ways it is, we can protest DOJ's policies, but they'll blow us off. Californians elect the anti-gun attorney generals who run DOJ and the legislature politicians. Its the gun owners throat when Californians elect and keep slimebags like Don Perata, Kevin DeLeon, Mark DeSaulnier, Loni Hancock, Mark Leno, Mike Feuer, Tom Torlakson, and Mark Ridley-Thomas who make it a royal pain to do business in California. There are allot of good gun owners out there who are willing to put a gun down and make phone calls and write and I've met way too many complacent gun owners who should of been doing something and haven't, and I've met allot of gun owners who totally voted wrong and put the wrong people in office. I believer good gun owners have allot of clout in this state, but they don't know it and don't know how to go about it. We used to hold rallies at the capitol door step, but the news media barely gave us any coverage thus reducing our voice to a whisper. What we need to do now is show up at our legislatures offices and demand from our duly elected representatives that they help kill gun control bills and draft pro-gun legislation.

xdgregg
07-09-2008, 6:33 PM
I just found this on GB:

ATTENTION: IF YOU RESIDE IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, DO NOT BID ON THIS AUCTION. YOUR BID WILL NOT BE HONORED.

EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, ADAMS GUN EMPORIUM, LLC HAS CEASED DELIVERY OF ALL FIREARMS, FIREARMS PARTS AND AMMUNITION TO ALL POLICE DEPARTMENTS, POLICE OFFICERS AND RESIDENTS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THE RESIDENTS OF, WHAT HAS BECOME THE PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNIA, BECOME ANGRY ENOUGH, AND GROW ENOUGH COURAGE, TO REMOVE FROM OFFICE THE SOCIALIST POLITICIANS WHO PASSED SECTIONS 12072(F)(1) & 12083(C)(1) OF THE CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE INTO LAW AND THE GOVERNATOR WHO ALLOWED IT TO BECOME LAW, I SHALL NOT HONOR ANY FURTHER BIDS FROM THE RESIDENTS OF THE PEOPLES REPUBLIK of KALIFORNIA. THIS SHALL ALSO APPLY TO CURIO & RELICS (03) FIREARMS AND LICENSEES. NO EXCEPTIONS WILL BE MADE.

I BELIEVE THAT THESE LAWS VIOLATE THE COMMERCE CLAUSE AND ARE CLEARLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND I REFUSE TO BE KALIFORNIKATED BY YOUR SOCIALIST POLITICAL HACKS. DON'T LIKE MY ATTITUDE, THEN GET BUSY THIS ELECTION AND VOTE THE BUMS OUT'A OFFICE WHO VOTED FOR THIS ABOMINABLE SET OF LAWS, AND MAKE SURE THEIR SUCCESSORS KNOW EXACTLY WHY THEY GOT ELECTED. THEN INSIST THAT THEY REPEAL THESE ABOMINABLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS BEFORE IT BECOMES NECESSARY FOR THE GOOD CITIZENS OF CALIFORNIA TO DO SO BY FORCE OF ARMS.

djp7558
07-09-2008, 7:39 PM
So...how can we recruit and organize?
We need to get the word out in a BIG way.

ap3572001
07-12-2008, 11:36 PM
333

bubbaskyjacker
07-12-2008, 11:41 PM
yeah it crap but it takes an extra 5 mins on the doj website. their loss and when their pockets become thin they will have a change of heart, monsy does that

Moonclip
07-13-2008, 12:14 AM
Yup,CA is still the biggest gun market in the USA.

radioburning
07-13-2008, 4:15 PM
This is our fault for not going to the offices of these D-bag politicians, 100's at a time, demanding they go bark up another tree or they will be demoted to janitor at the next election...

Just my .02

Draven
07-13-2008, 7:14 PM
Sorry, FFLs are a federally administered license and isn't CA's place to make sure that their license is current. There is an existing procedure already in place-namely, a signed copy of the FFL sent from one dealer to the other- that allows FFLs to verify that the other licensee is current. They can say whatever they want about why they put this system in place, they are just trying to make it an extra pain for FFL-to-FFL transfers here so we can't get things like evil black OLL rifles and scary sniper rifles.