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jimmerjammermrk
07-04-2008, 2:26 AM
I've done some searching and have come to the following conclusion, please let me know if I'm right.

I'm a college student and have lived in dorms in the past. I'm now moving into an apartment and I'd like to buy a handgun. I have a CA driver's license. I'll also soon have a rental agreement/cable bill with my name on it. My issue is that my DL address won't match the proof of residency. From what I've read, this shouldn't matter as long as I put my new address on the form at the gun shop so it will match the rental agreement/cable bill. Am I right about this?

Also, I seem to remember that when buying a long gun, only a driver's license is required. Is this true?

Thanks.

kalibear
07-04-2008, 2:48 AM
You need to file a change of address with DMV and they give you that little brown card with your new address and make sure they stamp it

The SoCal Gunner
07-04-2008, 4:51 AM
Your address on the DL does not need to match the proof of residency but some dealers may give you trouble over this. I I've experienced three different situations in this regard.

1) dealer knows the rules and doesn't give you trouble

2) you write your new address on the back of the DL (I write it on tape and tape it to my DL) and the dealer accepts that

3) a dealer gives you trouble with this and you go to the DMV to get the brown card to write your new address one

Yes you only need a DL for long guns. Big 5 makes up their on rules and requires proof of residency as well.

Coda
07-04-2008, 11:27 AM
I go to college in northern CA and my family and my CDL address is in southern CA. I just started the 10 day wait for my wilson a few days ago. I was told by my FFL that my DL address would have to be the same as my proof of residency and I was really frustrated as it wasn't. However, I printed out a PG&E bill anyway and went down to the FFL to see if they could do anything. I had to wait for the head honcho in the shop to be free with another customer as the regular salesman didn't know exactly what to do. The guy called up the DOJ on the spot and spoke with a Bill I believe. As it ends up, everything with this type of transaction is on the up and up. The head honcho said that Bill said this happens all the time and is approved all the time. I think it may help that you describe your situation of being a student and thus having two different addresses as Bill at the DOJ seemed to understand my particular situation and was fine with it. If the FFL refuses to do this transaction ask the manager to call the DOJ for confirmation.

Fjold
07-04-2008, 11:32 AM
You're online, do the DMV change of address and print out the form.

jimmerjammermrk
07-04-2008, 11:59 AM
What does it cost to file for change of address? I'd rather not do it as I'll only be living in this particular apartment for 1 to 2 years, but I guess I'll do it if I have to.

Technically, though, it shouldn't be required, correct?

Also, what's up with Big 5 and long guns? Just trying to cover all angles in case of legal problems?

Bobshouse
07-04-2008, 12:15 PM
We were just inspected by the ATF a couple of weeks ago. If your address on your DL does not match your current address you will need to provide proof of residency to your FFL. A copy of your utility bill, or some other Government paper with your current address will suffice.

We have alot of Military purchase guns at our club, most have out of state drivers licenses and must show state residency in California. A copy of their PCS orders, a utility bill works fine.

The SoCal Gunner
07-04-2008, 1:09 PM
Okay did some more searching and found the page I was referring to:

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/resprf.php


Proof of Residency

Under Bureau of Firearms policy and soon to be proposed in regulations, firearms dealers may accept any of the following:

* Utility bill reflecting services to a fixed place of residence. The utility bill must bear on its face both of the following:
1. The name of the transferee.
2. Either the residential address declared on the DROS form or the address as it appears on the transferee's identification.
* Residential lease that bears both of the following:
1. The name of the transferee.
2. Either the residential address declared by the transferee on the DROS form, or the address as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.
* Property deed the bears both of the following:
1. The name of the transferee
2. Either the residential address declared by the transferee on the DROS form, or the address as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.
* Government-issued (city, county, special district, state or federal) documentation that has all of the following - - This does not include a drivers license or DMV-issued ID card:
1. The name of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.
2. The name of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.
3. The residential address of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID or the address update attachment to the driver's license/identification card.
4. The residential address of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.
* Examples of acceptable proof of residency pursuant to newly-proposed regulations:
1. DMV registrations are NOW acceptable.
2. Electricity, gas, cable bill from within the last 3 months.
3. Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.
* Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:
1. Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
2. Cellular phone bill.
3. Passport.
4. Pay stub.

The SoCal Gunner
07-04-2008, 1:17 PM
What does it cost to file for change of address? I'd rather not do it as I'll only be living in this particular apartment for 1 to 2 years, but I guess I'll do it if I have to.

Technically, though, it shouldn't be required, correct?

Also, what's up with Big 5 and long guns? Just trying to cover all angles in case of legal problems?

Change of address online does not cost anything but you really won't get anything to print out and you won't receive a new DL until your current one is due to expire which is why it is such a hassle when a FFL doesn't accept a proof of residency that doesn't match the DL.

DMV says you could just write your new address on a piece of paper and sign it but some FFLs want the brown card which means you need to go to the DMV in person.

To get the brown card all you need to do is either fill out the change of address form at the DMV or tell them you already changed your address online and just want the brown card.

Mike's Custom
07-04-2008, 1:26 PM
YOu need to do a change of address to match your Proof of Residency. Once this is done you can just write in your new address on the back of your DL where it is marked. This is good as long as you tell the FFL that you have a address change so he can enter the correct address into the DROS. If he just swipes your DL then it will show your old addy. If yoru car registration is coming due then you can change your addy on that and that new registration will work as POR.

jimmerjammermrk
07-04-2008, 2:08 PM
So this information is incorrect?

What documentation is acceptable to demonstrate proof of residency for handgun purchasers?

* Utility bill from within the past three months that bears on its face the individual's name and either of the following:

1. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form

or

2. The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

Fjold
07-04-2008, 3:18 PM
Change of address online does not cost anything but you really won't get anything to print out and you won't receive a new DL until your current one is due to expire which is why it is such a hassle when a FFL doesn't accept a proof of residency that doesn't match the DL.

DMV says you could just write your new address on a piece of paper and sign it but some FFLs want the brown card which means you need to go to the DMV in person.

To get the brown card all you need to do is either fill out the change of address form at the DMV or tell them you already changed your address online and just want the brown card.


I just changed my address on line with the DMV two months ago and there is a form with the DMV seal on it and everything that you can print out.

jacksonator
07-04-2008, 3:47 PM
I bought a handgun two weeks ago with my valid CA license (old address, not my current one) and my car registration (which DOES have my current address). That worked fine, as it should by law. I also brought two utility bills and my lease "just in case," but those documents were not necessary. You SHOULD be able to use your license and your lease.

The SoCal Gunner
07-04-2008, 3:56 PM
I just changed my address on line with the DMV two months ago and there is a form with the DMV seal on it and everything that you can print out.

I'll have to check this out more carefully. I've done the online change a few times and all I ever get is a confirmation but nothing that shows the new address.

The SoCal Gunner
07-04-2008, 3:59 PM
So this information is incorrect?

Since that info is again straight from the CA DOJ, it should be correct. Print it out and bring it to your FFL with the URL so they can see for themselves if they give you trouble.

halifax
07-04-2008, 4:04 PM
I'm pretty certain state law requires that you notifiy DMV within 10 days of a change of address when you move. So, might as well just get it over with.

From DMV website

"When you move, you must give DMV your new address within 10 days. (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/pgsmiscellaneous.htm)"

Mike's Custom
07-04-2008, 6:55 PM
Proof of residency has to match your DL or ID. Your DL/ID may not have the correct address on the face but you must have a address change with the DMV and the address must be changed manually on the DROS so it is the current correct address on the POR.

jimmerjammermrk
07-05-2008, 12:03 AM
Proof of residency has to match your DL or ID.
So many people are saying this, but it seems to contradict the DOJ. Seems like there is a lot of confusion in general on this issue, and that a lot of dealers are requiring more than necessary.

kpw001
07-05-2008, 12:22 AM
don't worry about it, I was in the same position when i DROS'ed my frist gun. They just took the address from my DL even though my utility bill had my apartment address. if you want you can always take your apartment lease and a utility bill but thats overkill.

Mike's Custom
07-05-2008, 11:19 AM
So many people are saying this, but it seems to contradict the DOJ. Seems like there is a lot of confusion in general on this issue, and that a lot of dealers are requiring more than necessary.


The PoR address must match the ID address. What is hard about that? If your CA DL or ID address is different then the PoR then you must ahve the correct address on the back of the license or on the DMV attachment. When the ID is scanned by the FFL the incorrect address will show in the address blank. The FFL MUST type in the correct address into this window as well as ZIP code. The FFL then makes a copy of the IDs face and the back of the ID with the corrected address. The PoR address must be the same as the address on the DROS and the DROS must contain your correct address.

Coda
07-05-2008, 1:39 PM
sort of a related question: I know they want my address so they can confiscate my firearms later and so they can track me down if my firearm was involved in a crime (which will never happen), but will the DOJ send me mail or anything concerning my firearm?

The SoCal Gunner
07-05-2008, 3:14 PM
The PoR address must match the ID address. What is hard about that? If your CA DL or ID address is different then the PoR then you must ahve the correct address on the back of the license or on the DMV attachment. When the ID is scanned by the FFL the incorrect address will show in the address blank. The FFL MUST type in the correct address into this window as well as ZIP code. The FFL then makes a copy of the IDs face and the back of the ID with the corrected address. The PoR address must be the same as the address on the DROS and the DROS must contain your correct address.

It's hard because that isn't what the DOJ faqs state, it isn't what is required, but it is what some FFLs are saying.

If you take the time to read the faqs, nowhere does it say that the DL address must match the POR address but only that the address you declare on the DROS form must either match the DL OR the POR.

Some people have PO Boxes on their DL in which case they need to declare on the DROS the address on their POR.

Others, like college students for example, have their parent's home address on their DL (which they consider their home) but have a utility bill for an apartment they are sharing.

barrykay
07-05-2008, 9:46 PM
The PoR address must match the ID address. What is hard about that? If your CA DL or ID address is different then the PoR then you must ahve the correct address on the back of the license or on the DMV attachment. When the ID is scanned by the FFL the incorrect address will show in the address blank. The FFL MUST type in the correct address into this window as well as ZIP code. The FFL then makes a copy of the IDs face and the back of the ID with the corrected address. The PoR address must be the same as the address on the DROS and the DROS must contain your correct address.


MORE FUD and from a "Sr." Member at that

jimmerjammermrk
07-08-2008, 9:20 PM
It's hard because that isn't what the DOJ faqs state, it isn't what is required, but it is what some FFLs are saying.

Exactly.

Knight
07-08-2008, 9:35 PM
Others, like college students for example, have their parent's home address on their DL (which they consider their home) but have a utility bill for an apartment they are sharing.

This a potential issue for most college students trying to buy a firearm. I've had problems in the past with this. I eventually just changed the address on my DL to my apartment so I wouldn't have to deal with being hassled. Might be something to consider if this handgun purchase won't be your last . . .

mymonkeyman
07-09-2008, 12:02 AM
Change of address online does not cost anything but you really won't get anything to print out and you won't receive a new DL until your current one is due to expire which is why it is such a hassle when a FFL doesn't accept a proof of residency that doesn't match the DL.

DMV says you could just write your new address on a piece of paper and sign it but some FFLs want the brown card which means you need to go to the DMV in person.

To get the brown card all you need to do is either fill out the change of address form at the DMV or tell them you already changed your address online and just want the brown card.

FFLs vary wildly on what they accept. Going to the DMV to get the brown card is very easy, you don't even have to wait in line, the front "handler" person can give you the stamped card. However, some FFLs, going one step beyond the craziness of requiring matching ID & proof of residence, do not accept these cards because, they are essentially bull-crap for the purpose of proof because they don't check what you write down on the card matches the change of address form you submit. These crazy FFLs make you spend $5, wait in the longer line for the DMV to turn in a form requesting your driver's license record, which will also show your current residential address. Of course, this form won't show the new address when you turn in the change of address form, so either you have to make 2 trips to the DMV (double the fun!) or do it online first, wait a few days, then come in, turn in a paper change of address form to get a brown card, and then ask for a printed driver's record and pay $5.

The SoCal Gunner
07-09-2008, 1:25 AM
FFLs vary wildly on what they accept. Going to the DMV to get the brown card is very easy, you don't even have to wait in line, the front "handler" person can give you the stamped card. However, some FFLs, going one step beyond the craziness of requiring matching ID & proof of residence, do not accept these cards because, they are essentially bull-crap for the purpose of proof because they don't check what you write down on the card matches the change of address form you submit. These crazy FFLs make you spend $5, wait in the longer line for the DMV to turn in a form requesting your driver's license record, which will also show your current residential address. Of course, this form won't show the new address when you turn in the change of address form, so either you have to make 2 trips to the DMV (double the fun!) or do it online first, wait a few days, then come in, turn in a paper change of address form to get a brown card, and then ask for a printed driver's record and pay $5.

I'm glad I never had to do what you just explained. I did, for my most recent purchase, travel a good distance to my nearest DMV to get the brown card because the FFL wanted it. In this case I ordered the gun and had it sent to him so I didn't want to cause any more grief or delay for either of us.

SanSacto
07-09-2008, 1:28 AM
My CA drivers license shows my previous address in northern Cali. I have my new address permanently handwritten on the back under address change. I also show for my current address DMV registration, insurance, voter registration. It has worked on 3 DROSs so far.

Mike's Custom
07-09-2008, 3:00 AM
My CA drivers license shows my previous address in northern Cali. I have my new address permanently handwritten on the back under address change. I also show for my current address DMV registration, insurance, voter registration. It has worked on 3 DROSs so far.


As it should. The FFL has to change the address field on the DROS after he scans your license. Then, your ID address writen on the back, which the FFL must make a copy of along with your PoR with that same addy. Done. Techniclly you are supposed to actually change your address with the DMV and using the card or the space on the back of the ID for the new addy change but the FFL has no way of knowing that you actually did do it.

jimmerjammermrk
07-11-2008, 11:28 PM
Techniclly you are supposed to actually change your address with the DMV and using the card or the space on the back of the ID for the new addy change but the FFL has no way of knowing that you actually did do it.
In order to purchase a handgun? Where are you getting this information?

SanSacto
07-12-2008, 12:32 AM
Techniclly you are supposed to actually change your address with the DMV and using the card or the space on the back of the ID for the new addy change but the FFL has no way of knowing that you actually did do it.

I did change my address with the DMV. printed the form online and sent it through the mail. Was I supposed to get some card or anything back from the DMV?

Mike's Custom
07-12-2008, 1:40 PM
I did change my address with the DMV. printed the form online and sent it through the mail. Was I supposed to get some card or anything back from the DMV?


You only get somehting back, like a new license, if you pay for it. All you have to do is print your correct address on the back where it says ADDRESS CHANGE below the mag strip. The FFL must manually type this new address into the correct places on the DROS. Then the dealer makes a copy of the front and back of the D.L. for his records (and right thumb print for a hand gun). This new address on the back and DROS must match your proof of Res.

jimmerjammermrk
07-23-2008, 4:16 PM
You only get somehting back, like a new license, if you pay for it. All you have to do is print your correct address on the back where it says ADDRESS CHANGE below the mag strip. The FFL must manually type this new address into the correct places on the DROS. Then the dealer makes a copy of the front and back of the D.L. for his records (and right thumb print for a hand gun). This new address on the back and DROS must match your proof of Res.

This should not be necessary. According to the DoJ website, proof of residency must match either the address on your CDL or the address on the DROS, but does not have to match both. Why is it necessary for the address to be written on the CDL?

Splinter
07-23-2008, 4:32 PM
Mike, please call the DOJ if you do not agree with what people are saying. The DOJ does not agree with your statements.

Jorge
07-23-2008, 4:37 PM
I've purchased plenty of firearms with the address on the DROS form not matching my CDL. Never had a problem. check out the following link:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=47372&highlight=dros+address

Julians4x4
07-23-2008, 6:08 PM
I've purchased plenty of firearms with the address on the DROS form not matching my CDL. Never had a problem. check out the following link:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=47372&highlight=dros+address

+ 1

tankerman
07-23-2008, 7:06 PM
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 8:43 PM
To:
Subject: Fw: [Web Form] General Comment or Question
Page 1 of 3
3/7/2007
----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Leslie McGovern <Leslie.McGovern@doj.ca.gov>
To:
Sent: Monday, March 5, 2007 9:13:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Web Form] General Comment or Question
Dear Mr.
In regard to your e-mail inquiry, as long as the Z card contains all of the following, it would be an
acceptable form of proof of residency:
"A current, government-issued (city, county, special district, state, or federal) license, permit, or
registration, other than a California Driver License or California Identification Card, that has a
specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the
individual's name and either of the following:
A. The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form.
B. The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California
Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto."
Another form of proof of residency you could do is have your wife write up a contract/agreement stating
that you live with her (it would have to include your name and the address would have to match the
address on your ID or DROS form).
Should you have any further questions, you may contact the Bureau of Firearms at (916) 263-4887.
Sincerely,
Leslie McGovern, Analyst
Bureau of Firearms
>>> " 1/16/2007 7:20 PM >>>
Below is the result of the feedback form.
It was submitted by
========== DOJ USE ONLY ==========
NEW_TYPE:
========== DOJ USE ONLY ==========
TYPE: PL
First Name:
Middle Initial:
Last Name:
Address Line:
Address Line 2:
City:
State:
Zip:
Zip4:
Area Code:
Phone Number:
Comment Or Question Message: My question is about DROS and proof of residency. I work as a
Merchant Marine and all of our bills are in my wife's name. I went to DROS a handgun and the store
owner refused to accept my 'Z'card as proof of residency. I read on you website that a federally issued
I.D. with the same information that is contained on my Ca. drivers license is acceptable as proof of
residency.It has ;picture, home address, SS# expiration date, I go through a background check that all
people that are considered transportation workers must go through in order to qualify for the I.D..Issued
by the Coast Guard. Would you please confirm this so I may take it to the dealer and have this situation
fixed.
Regards,
Affirm Information Accurate: Yes
Request Copy: Yes
Email:
Confirm Email:
[End of comment or complaint information]
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication with its contents may contain
confidential and/or legally privileged information. It is solely for the
use of the intended recipient(s). Unauthorized interception, review, use
or disclosure is prohibited and may violate applicable laws including
the Electronic Communications Privacy Act. If you are not the intended
recipient, please contact the sender and destroy all copies of the
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