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savs2k
07-03-2008, 5:25 AM
So i just came back from a fishing trip at a secret spot far far away. Civilization is about a 20 min drive away and there are bobcats and other animals that are in the area so im always packing there. Before i left i had my 1911 that I have been eager to shoot because ive had it for 3 weeks but havent been able to shoot it yet. I couldn't resist and let off a mag. VERY open road no one around no houses cars or anything. It's like staring down the road on HWY 5. But me being an idiot i didnt have my plugs thinking it shouldnt be so bad in open area. Yes i know that is a really stupid idea and well I wont ever be doing that again EVER. Got me thinking though, if you were in a situation where you had to shoot your .45 indoor... im not sure how your hearing would be after that. I don't think I ever want to shoot a gun indoors if i was getting robbed now. How long does ringing and discomfort usually last?

and the main reason I posted. Is it normal for a jam for a new 1911? the 20thish round ever out of the gun jammed. Or should i be a bit worried. My glock never jammed on me until I started buying walmart winchester white box and i'll have 1 or 2 jams tops out of 200 rounds. I was shooting blazer brass .45 in my kimber.

by the way the place I was shooting at is a legal place to shoot. People duck hunt there every morning so don't think I just unloaded a few rounds where i shouldn't have.

robbor
07-03-2008, 5:36 AM
Alot of people hunt and fire a limited number of round with seemingly very little
from the muzzle blast. I have about 30% hearing loss in a certain range. Sometimes a shot or 2 wont bother me and other times the phone will start ringing. Alot of shooting with out plug causes the phone to ring all day(no joke).
I now have more earplug in my safe than guns. I try not to fire my 7" barreled 22lr with out plug, bat usualy doesnt cause problems but seem very loud. The best plugs I have found for me are a discontinued plug but similar versions are still avail. It is a silicone flanged plug in size small, which makes it super simple to insert and no time is wasted waiting for them to expand and minimal pressure is exerted on my brain:D. They are Bilsom 555, 27db reduction. I have a 300 rum I will absolutely not fire without plugs but my uncle fires his all the time with no protection but he is already def.

savs2k
07-03-2008, 6:19 AM
yeah i def learned my lesson. No lie the first round i let off i only heard 1/4 of the bang the rest was dead quiet followed by a ring. Kind of like when you watch movies and a a-bomb goes off. Its boom,dead silence, then ring. How are the reusable plugs compared to the disposable ones? I would like reusable ones but the though of reusing ear plugs that often and carrying them grosses me out a bit.

anyone on my jamming issue?

heycorey
07-03-2008, 6:25 AM
WHAT?

TannerBoyl
07-03-2008, 6:35 AM
If you were in a situation where your life was in danger, your adrenaline levels would pretty much block out the noise. When I took my first wild pig, I shot it charging towards me. I didn't hear sound of my 30-30. I remember the smell of gunpowder and a quick puff of heat, but not any sound. I ran up and brained her with my 357SIG and didn't hear the shots from that either. In terms of being indoors, the sound would bounce off the walls instead of dissapate in the open, but I would assume the same results.

I don't want to get all preachy, but you did shoot against a backstop, right? You mentioned that it was open space, but I just wanted to emphasize shooting against a known backstop.

My other concern is taking a never fired pistol as a potential means of self defense. I know, we all get excited about new guns, but as you witnessed sometimes they need a breaking in period. Before I consider a pistol reliable enough for self defense I would run at the very least 200rds of failure free ammo through it. That is my comfort zone, but you may have a different number. Some like the round count to be much higher.

What kind of failure did you have? Did it fail to feed properly? Did the slide lock up on you? Did it fail to eject? Did you clean and lube your pistol before shooting it? These will help you determine the root cause of your failures.

Most importantly, what did you catch? I haven't been fishing in way too long and am itching to get back out.

chuck762
07-03-2008, 6:51 AM
Some pistols require a bit of break in. Also some pistols don't like a certain brand of ammo. I have seen some quality problems with blazer brass so I would suspect the ammo causing the problems. Try another brand and see what happens.

robbor
07-03-2008, 6:51 AM
If the plugs gross you out, you need to use q tips more often;),lol.
I wipe en on my shirt or wash em if needed. I got a bunch of plastic bottles to put the plugs in because they get dirty just being in your pocket.
I dont know anything about 1911s but alot of the continual jambs ive
seen have been from poor ammo, and i dont mean cheap rem or win ammo.
Also you may want to take the gun apart, clean and check it over real good.
Oil or grease everything. Polish sliding parts as needed with flitz and a dremmel tool and debur with a very fine hone any sharp edges. Alot of time there is a break in period for new parts, try to pay attention as to when the jambs happen, 1st round, last round, manually cycling the action. I always like to let a semi slam shut, i dont close them softly unless i have to.

Synergy
07-03-2008, 6:58 AM
and the main reason I posted. Is it normal for a jam for a new 1911? the 20thish round ever out of the gun jammed. Or should i be a bit worried. My glock never jammed on me until I started buying walmart winchester white box and i'll have 1 or 2 jams tops out of 200 rounds. I was shooting blazer brass .45 in my kimber.

1911's need a break in of 500-1000 rounds to be ultimately reliable. How did it jam? Failure to Feed (FTF)? Failure to Extract (FTE)? I would also field strip and lube the gun often during the break in period. Type of lubrication is a personal preference and a message board battle like Ford vs. Chevy. I use Mobil 1 syn grease on mine. Dont forget to clean your mags also. Took about 1000 rounds of WWB, before my Rock stopped getting a ftf or fte at least 1 or twice in a few hundred rounds. Have 7000 rounds down the pipe now and never a problem. Its 100% reliable and have no doubt placing my safety on that 1911.

Res
07-03-2008, 7:06 AM
I once fired 2 shots of .45acp from a small room into a hallway and I didn't hear either shot. I remember hearing a slight ring before, during and after. But I hear that everytime my adrenaline is up, and even with the low ring my hearing was still acute.

I've had my hearing checked a few times afterwards, and everything came out fine. And i always use hearing protection when I go out shooting.

Remember. In a self defense situation, you're probably not going to be firing off multiple magazines.

maxicon
07-03-2008, 7:16 AM
Shooting indoors or in a car is much worse than outdoors, and it can cause permanent hearing damage with just one or two shots, especially with big bore stuff like shotguns and .45s.

You may not notice at the time due to adrenaline, but this doesn't prevent the damage from occuring, it just keeps you from noticing. If you care about your hearing, and especially if you care about music, don't take the chance. I keep plugs in my car at all times, just in case.

It's a dilemma for indoors defense. My thought is that situational awareness is much more important than hearing protection in a situation where you'll check things out many, many times, but may never have to fire a shot. YMMV, as always.

kurac
07-03-2008, 7:20 AM
Good thing you were not firing a .357 Mag or .44 Mag, those will really get your ears ringing

Rule .308
07-03-2008, 7:21 AM
Like the other guys have said, it really depends upon the situation. I have hunted varmints for years and have never once used any kind of hearing protection and it still strikes me as odd that you do not really notice the report of the rifle going off. If you are at a range or just out casually shooting somewhere it sounds like a bomb went off and your head rings like a bell, oooouch.

I think the funniest part is that you carry a sidearm because of bobcats, I mean really, what do you think that a bobcat is going to do to you. ROFL

USN CHIEF
07-03-2008, 7:28 AM
I learned my lesson about 14 years that shooting a .45 without hearing protection is a bad idea. I kept hearing the little ring in my head for a strait week.

happy_gunner
07-03-2008, 7:34 AM
don't make my mistake, I still remember on my very first deer, I was using my Browning Stainless stalker with BOSS muzzle break tip shooting a 30-06, I thought I wouldn't hear the shot but I was never so wrong, after the shot, my ears rang for the rest of the day, and the following week when I hear a semi-loud noise it would ring again, if someone talked a little louder next to me it would ring.

As far as ammo, I don't like the blazer brass, they jammed a bit on my Kimber with Kimpro or wilson combat mags. the Wal-mart winchester white box worked better, if you want to spend some money, Remington Golden Sabers.

Slayer
07-03-2008, 8:03 AM
1911's need a break in of 500-1000 rounds to be ultimately reliable.

So, why does everyone reccomend a 1911 when people ask for suggestions for a 1st time handgun owner?

If this is true, a 1911 should be about the 10th gun you own. Period.

Res
07-03-2008, 8:34 AM
So, why does everyone reccomend a 1911 when people ask for suggestions for a 1st time handgun owner?

If this is true, a 1911 should be about the 10th gun you own. Period.

My first semi-auto was one of those "cheap" Rock Island 1911's that a lot of people thumb their nose at. I have about 2k rounds out of it, with only 1 ftf (cci blazer aluminum case).

Synergy
07-03-2008, 9:27 AM
So, why does everyone reccomend a 1911 when people ask for suggestions for a 1st time handgun owner?

If this is true, a 1911 should be about the 10th gun you own. Period.

Most I have talked to don't recommend a 1911 as a first gun. Limp wristed shooting can cause FTE. Although, they are simple to field and detail strip, great SA trigger. Built like a tank, they shoot very natural. Remember this is a 100 year old design that has been used by many soldiers of many nations and they still are popular this day. Browning must have got something right!

For the new 1911 owners look at getting the Kuhnhausen shop manuals if you want to the learn the gun inside and out.

Also check out this site
http://www.m1911.org

IllTemperedCur
07-03-2008, 9:36 AM
+1 for a break-in period for ANY firearm before depending on it for your life. That's Introduction to Guns 101 stuff.

Ear protection for practice/range use is essential, but I wouldn't worry about ear protection in a defensive situation. Hearing loss is the least of your problems when some miscreant is breaking into your home at 3 in the morning.

I've read online stuff by Iraq vets saying that NCOs were smacking soldiers in the head if they wore earplugs on patrols/convoys. Situational awareness is infinitely more important than hearing loss.

ohsmily
07-03-2008, 9:39 AM
I dont know anything about 1911s

Polish sliding parts as needed with flitz and a dremmel tool and debur with a very fine hone any sharp edges.

Please, do not follow this guy's advice. Just go shoot your guns.

Slayer
07-03-2008, 9:43 AM
Most I have talked to don't recommend a 1911 as a first gun. Limp wristed shooting can cause FTE. Although, they are simple to field and detail strip, great SA trigger. Built like a tank, they shoot very natural. Remember this is a 100 year old design that has been used by many soldiers of many nations and they still are popular this day. Browning must have got something right!

For the new 1911 owners look at getting the Kuhnhausen shop manuals if you want to the learn the gun inside and out.

Also check out this site
http://www.m1911.org


Hey, I'm a fan of the 1911. On my "To Do List" is to buy one. But if this is true (regarding the break in) they should not be reccomended for a first gun purchase, or even first handgun. I know that isn't the point of the thread, just throwin it out there.

tophatjones
07-03-2008, 9:43 AM
Can you describe the 1911 jam in detail?

Properly built 1911s do not need a breaking in period. A properly built and fit 1911 will be tight in tolerances, but will function reliably and smoothly. A modern production version, however, is overbuilt in tolerances and generally require a breaking in. Production facilities do not have the resources to fit each gun properly, so they take a shortcut by overbuilding each spec. They build 1911s as tight as possible, and let the overall wear and tear from 500+ rounds determine reliability. Not the best formula, but it seems to work for a lot of guns. There may not be any serious problem with yours, but I think the concept of having a breaking in period can prevent a new 1911 owner from determining whether the reliability problems come from this tight fit or whether there is a more serious problem at hand. Well, Kimber better warranty your pistol if there is a problem after 500 rounds, but at that point, you've lost 500 rounds trying to "break in" a gun that has had a feedramp geometry problem, or etc.

As for hearing protection, I would wear lots of it, always. But that's just me. ;)

apbrian112
07-03-2008, 9:53 AM
+1 on the adrenaline thing... i've fired all sorts of firearms with no earplugs (only cus you can't hear the radio and it is detrimental to your situational awareness):
-M2Hb
-mk19 (although it's more of a thud)
-m240b
-m16/m4's and ak's (in various configurations)
-etc. etc.

during my post-deployment hearing test i had lost some hearing (duh) in the normal range but my high-frequency hearing was awesome... the guy told me i had cyborg ears (i thought i was like the guy from the tv show "sentinel" - anybody remember that one?)

packnrat
07-03-2008, 12:49 PM
just bust a dollar and go down to your local construction supply warehouse and buy a big box of the better ones. about $40.00 for 1000 of them.

also have muffs as extra insurance. once gone never more.:eek:


:TFH:


.

ViPER395
07-03-2008, 1:14 PM
Here's my little story.

First i'll state that I never used protection. I can't hear, barely can see, and have a bad case of the clap, and i'm only 30.

Seriously tho, no eye/ear until a couple years ago. So I grew up hunting with a 30-30 and 30-06, while plinking and squirelling I used a .22. .22 never really bothered me, and while 30-30 and 30-06 make my ears ring and is plenty loud, I never wore plugs in the field.

Then a couple years ago on a whim I decided to buy a Mini-14. Never having shot anything other than my '06 and 30-30, I was anxious to try out a semi-auto centerfire, and so a couple days after I picked it up from Wild Sports, I bought some .223 ammo, grabbed my 10/22, got some gas and headed to ENF.

So I get out on the MET as far as I can go until the snow is too thick for 2WD. I get out, and, while this may seem dangerous to many, wheneve I buy a new gun, I always shoot it in such a way so that the bolt is not in a line with my face. It's paranoia, but should that bolt give it's going thru my wrist, not my eye.

Anyways, I pop off a round into a tree, just from a standing position, holding rifle at my hips (without pistol grip, imagine that) and OMFG.... I had shot the '06 like I said, and seeing an '06 shell and a .223 I thought, 'gee, it can't be half as loud as a 30-06'. Boy was I wrong. Not only is it louder, it has a different sound. Higher pitched, almost a screming report. My dad never uses protection and even he plugs his ears when I shoot the 14.

So back to my Mini-14 cherry-busting trip... I shot it a couple more times at my target, and I thanked my lucky stars I brought the .22 so I hadn't wasted the shooting trip. After that I always use protection, and even keep a set of foamys in my 14's rifle case, just in case I forget.

savs2k
07-03-2008, 2:52 PM
wow. at least i know the phone calls will stop. it's gotten alot better since i got home but this ring is really annoying. No need to worry guys I was shooting at a huge pile of dirt the size of a house. This has got to be one of the crappiest feelings ever to have messed up hearing. im only 23 and I plan to keep my hearing forever so where ever my guns go I WILL have plugs with them from now on. Oh and as far as my fishing trip, the water was pretty high and kept rising all night for some reason. Ended up with 12 catfish. Funny thing my friend caught a fish but snapped his line, 15 mins later my other friend caught a fish and when reeled...his line caught the snapped line and brought in the first fish. It was a fairly large catfish too. We left too early to go for the stripper though.

CrippledPidgeon
07-03-2008, 3:52 PM
So, why does everyone reccomend a 1911 when people ask for suggestions for a 1st time handgun owner?

If this is true, a 1911 should be about the 10th gun you own. Period.

Just out of curiosity, why? I personally bought my 1911 about a month and a half after I bought my Buckmark (which was my first gun). It was going to be my THIRD gun, but I found a deal I couldn't pass up.

Turbinator
07-03-2008, 6:00 PM
Frankly, I'm amazed at how many people here apparently DO NOT use hearing protection on a regular basis when shooting firearms. Up to you. It's your body.

I still highly recommend that any beginners reading this very seriously consider never shooting firearms for recreation without using eye and ear protection.

Turby

happy_gunner
07-03-2008, 6:53 PM
I'm actually surprised on how many ppl are shooting outside of an indoor/outdoor range, is there a place like that in the bay area?

Greg-Dawg
07-03-2008, 7:03 PM
It's not a Glock. Shoot 500 rounds out of it, being well oiled, and it should be fine.

savs2k
07-03-2008, 8:56 PM
i forgot to post it was a failure to feed.

ar15barrels
07-03-2008, 9:35 PM
yeah i def learned my lesson. No lie the first round i let off i only heard 1/4 of the bang the rest was dead quiet followed by a ring.

Any time your ears ring, you have just lost a little bit of your hearing.
Repeated exposure to such sound levels will eventually reduce enough of your hearing for you to actually notice the loss.

ojisan
07-03-2008, 9:51 PM
FTF: tight extractor, sharp corner on bottom of extractor, rough feed ramp / poor barrel alignment, rough breech face, locking lugs too tightly fitted, barrel hood too tightly fitted, weak magazine spring, bent mag lips, barrel bushing or bull barrel fit too tight, firing pin fail to retract, tight slide, weak recoil spring, burrs, shavings, crud. Applies to almost all semiauto handguns.

A (idiot) guy at ASR shot off his 30-06 about one foot from my right ear during a cease fire. My muffs were off. I know the range guys yelled at him judging by what I saw but all I could hear was RRRRIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGG. Still do years later from time to time. Plugs always at a minimum.

Slayer
07-03-2008, 11:37 PM
Just out of curiosity, why? I personally bought my 1911 about a month and a half after I bought my Buckmark (which was my first gun). It was going to be my THIRD gun, but I found a deal I couldn't pass up.

If you can't trust your life on a gun until you hit 1k rounds, dont own it until you own at least 9 others you can trust your life on.

CALI-gula
07-04-2008, 9:33 AM
I always use plugs AND muffs at the range; really did a number on my ears as a kid, making money cutting neighbor's lawns to pay for college, about 2 to 3 lawns a day, 4 to 6 days a week, all summer long. Back then, nobody wore ear protection and those old lawnmowers were about twice as loud as mowers on the market today. When I worked in a non-union non-destructive metal-testing shop the summer before going to college, they didn't make us wear ear-plugs as the only "machines" were grinders, and I wasn't on those - however just being in ear-shot wasn't a good thing. Subsequently, when I started working in union oriented tool & die/gear-cutting machine-shops during the following summer breaks, and union rules MADE you wear ear-plugs, was when I realized the seriousness of their importance. Now days, I ALWAYS wear earplugs when cutting the grass or even using my drill or grinder; any machinery really, short of my dishwasher.

However, yes, I have shot a Glock 22 (.40S&W) and a 1911 Commander (.45ACP) inside of a house; vacant houses on farmland, fully aware of the target, background and other side of the wall. It was a safe setting - and yes, done intentionally, no earplugs - for the sake of shooting indoors without earplugs! Ironically, I didn't find the .45ACP anywhere near as bad as the .40S&W, and both are close in barrel length. But because of my 10% screwed up ears, I didn't have the ringing or any residual effect you are noticing - ironically.

There is no way to get over it other than to stay away from loud db's for about the next 3 days. Weird thing about that ringing is that if you get around more loud db's, it prolongs the ringing for some reason, due to a reaction of the nerves. The more you stay away from all things loud, the faster you'll get over the ringing and "numbness" of hearing.

.

NoobShooter
07-04-2008, 9:40 AM
The ringing means you pretty much overloaded the sensory nerves of your ears... prolong exposure would kill the cells and then you'll lose sensitivity to that specific frequency of sound.

I think the military was also issueing earplugs (the fancy ones that have the baffles and valves) to the troops so they don't lose hearing.

savs2k
07-04-2008, 12:36 PM
I always use plugs AND muffs at the range; really did a number on my ears as a kid, making money cutting neighbor's lawns to pay for college, about 2 to 3 lawns a day, 4 to 6 days a week, all summer long. Back then, nobody wore ear protection and those old lawnmowers were about twice as loud as mowers on the market today. When I worked in a non-union non-destructive metal-testing shop the summer before going to college, they didn't make us wear ear-plugs as the only "machines" were grinders, and I wasn't on those - however just being in ear-shot wasn't a good thing. Subsequently, when I started working in union oriented tool & die/gear-cutting machine-shops during the following summer breaks, and union rules MADE you wear ear-plugs, was when I realized the seriousness of their importance. Now days, I ALWAYS wear earplugs when cutting the grass or even using my drill or grinder; any machinery really, short of my dishwasher.

However, yes, I have shot a Glock 22 (.40S&W) and a 1911 Commander (.45ACP) inside of a house; vacant houses on farmland, fully aware of the target, background and other side of the wall. It was a safe setting - and yes, done intentionally, no earplugs - for the sake of shooting indoors without earplugs! Ironically, I didn't find the .45ACP anywhere near as bad as the .40S&W, and both are close in barrel length. But because of my 10% screwed up ears, I didn't have the ringing or any residual effect you are noticing - ironically.

There is no way to get over it other than to stay away from loud db's for about the next 3 days. Weird thing about that ringing is that if you get around more loud db's, it prolongs the ringing for some reason, due to a reaction of the nerves. The more you stay away from all things loud, the faster you'll get over the ringing and "numbness" of hearing.

.

this really sucks because today is 4th of july =( what luck huh?

Jpach
07-04-2008, 1:03 PM
hey apBrian, how were your experiences shooting the M2 without hearing protection? Iv always wondered what it would be like :36:

Max-the-Silent
07-04-2008, 3:55 PM
My handle means a couple of things, and one is my hearing loss.

Anytime you have a ringing in your ears, you've damaged your hearing. Don't ever shoot w/o hearing protection for fun - if you have to shoot in a defense situation, shoot, but never shoot for recreation w/o hearing protection unless you're using a quality sound suppressor.

M. Sage
07-04-2008, 4:58 PM
About the only times I've shot without hearing protection, I was hunting. The rest were one or two times being an idiot and many times when I was just shooting a .22 rifle.

outersquare
07-05-2008, 1:03 AM
the ringing itself will mostly go away on its' own but any time there is ringing there was hearing damage, and the longer the ringing, the worse the damage.
hearing damage is cumulative and irreversible.

once you know this, there is no excuse not to bring earplugs everywhere, not just shooting. You never know when you will need them and they don't weigh nor cost anything.

i remember years ago, when i was helping my dad with some housework, we went to home depot and needed help with some woodcutting, which HD will do for you.
The guy who did the work, he obviously could not hear a thing, he kept yelling, "HUH?" when we tried to talk to him, we almost had to yell at him to talk and that was when the machinery was off.
Poor guy had almost certainly lost his hearing cutting the wood as his job, without using adequate hearing protection.