PDA

View Full Version : 2008 SCPRC Open Slot


Spaniard
07-01-2008, 4:30 PM
If any of you know someone who would like to shoot in the SCPRC, we have 1 open position available.

Send me an e-mail asap if you have a friend or know someone who is familiar with bolt rifle events and would like to compete. Veteran or newbie makes no difference as long as their safe and can follow basic instructions.

e-mail: info@socalprc.com

Mark

Vu 308
07-01-2008, 6:13 PM
WTF over.....who dropped.

Spaniard
07-01-2008, 8:56 PM
Timberwolf,
But he may RO at the SCPRC, so he's looking into his schedule.

Spaniard-Mark

Timberwolf
07-01-2008, 10:01 PM
Sad but true - work, range duties, setting up the smallbore match program, running 1 now 2 matches per month and prepping for N/S has left very little time for myself . . . besides test firing my own courses of fire I've had no meaningful training and trigger time (I don't count zeroing customers rifles or banging the buff to stir the crowd as meaningful) since last year so I'm opening my slot for someone who may be more prepped than me but wasn't able to get in on time.

PistolPete75
07-01-2008, 10:06 PM
I am looking forward to the .22lr match. The savage might be my main rifle for the next year's shooting season.

pottymouth310
07-01-2008, 10:35 PM
If any of you know someone who would like to shoot in the SCPRC, we have 1 open position available.

Send me an e-mail asap if you have a friend or know someone who is familiar with bolt rifle events and would like to compete. Veteran or newbie makes no difference as long as their safe and can follow basic instructions.

e-mail: info@socalprc.com

Mark

for when?

Spaniard
07-02-2008, 5:48 AM
The SCPRC is July 12/13. There are 3 or 4 interested parties and as I mentioned to those others, first one that commits is in. Most are checking schedules since it is a 2 day match held at West End Gun Club.

Mark

www.socalprc.com

e-mail: info@socalrpc.com

Vu 308
07-02-2008, 7:36 AM
Sad but true - work, range duties, setting up the smallbore match program, running 1 now 2 matches per month and prepping for N/S has left very little time for myself . . . besides test firing my own courses of fire I've had no meaningful training and trigger time (I don't count zeroing customers rifles or banging the buff to stir the crowd as meaningful) since last year so I'm opening my slot for someone who may be more prepped than me but wasn't able to get in on time.



Come onnnnnnnnnnnnnn now. First my match, now Marks? Most of the people there don't train. I havent pulled the trigger on my bolt rifle in over a month now.

Timberwolf
07-02-2008, 8:57 AM
Come onnnnnnnnnnnnnn now. First my match, now Marks? Most of the people there don't train. I havent pulled the trigger on my bolt rifle in over a month now.

Wish it were different believe me but this year has been a doosey - work, range, matches, wife had major surgery in May and just now getting back to work (explains part of why I've been working every weekend), setting up the 22 matches, giving classes etc etc etc - I'm not complaining though - don't worry Vu next year should be settled some and I can actually compete a little again - hell we may even need to get a little side thing going at N/S - of course I'm sure you'll whoop my rusty butt :p

Novadesigns
07-02-2008, 9:46 AM
Sorry I couldn't take your spot Bill. I'm sure someone will.

I'll be GTG for next years match. And maybe I'll be good enough to actually score some points too! One can dream.

Vu 308
07-02-2008, 10:05 AM
Wish it were different believe me but this year has been a doosey - work, range, matches, wife had major surgery in May and just now getting back to work (explains part of why I've been working every weekend), setting up the 22 matches, giving classes etc etc etc - I'm not complaining though - don't worry Vu next year should be settled some and I can actually compete a little again - hell we may even need to get a little side thing going at N/S - of course I'm sure you'll whoop my rusty butt :p

Understandable man. I am hoping to pull the trigger more in 2009 as well.

Ed Eckhoff has joined the NCPPRC crew to put on bi-monthly 22 tactical rim fire match on our steel range. He was very inspired by your match and the article on 6mmbr.com This frees me up 6 matches a year.

Looking forward to North Vs South.

PistolPete75
07-02-2008, 10:48 AM
mayby next year we can do a north vs south in .22lr?

Vu 308
07-02-2008, 10:51 AM
Doubtful since North Vs south will be hosted by NCPPRC and we will be using the 1K range and 550 yard steel range.

Vu 308
07-02-2008, 10:52 AM
Big boy range..big boy range...big boy guns LOL

rksimple
07-02-2008, 11:22 AM
Same rules? We going to have a 308/open setup?

wildcard
07-02-2008, 11:44 AM
Same rules? We going to have a 308/open setup?

Thinking about going into the "Open Class" with a .223 to give them a chance? :p

rksimple
07-02-2008, 11:46 AM
Thinking about going into the "Open Class" with a .223 to give them a chance? :p

Nah, maybe a 17hmr to make it sporting.:D

I hope to have a 6.5 or 6mm of sorts by next year. We'll see.

Timberwolf
07-02-2008, 11:57 AM
Hopefully if all falls into place I'll have my old school 30-06 M70 built by early next year. Do I get any special targets since I'll be using 40 year old technology (that is if I can score a vintage Unertl 10X target scope) and no bi-pod.

wildcard
07-02-2008, 12:02 PM
that is if I can score a vintage Unertl 10X target scope

That's going to cost you..

Timberwolf
07-02-2008, 12:03 PM
That's going to cost you..

Usually no more than a good tactical scope (800 - 1200) but they're getting scarce. I also want one with a medium cross-hair instead of fine (can't see the fine very well) which makes it even harder.

PistolPete75
07-02-2008, 3:15 PM
Big boy range..big boy range...big boy guns LOL

shooting a .22lr in windy conditions would have the same difficulty as shooting a true Hipower/Big Bore rifle like a .308

i have nothing to prove to anyone. shooting a .22lr match would be as fun as shooting a regular hipower match.

plus, there is less of an arms race in a .22lr match which keeps it more fun in my opinion.

i don't compete for "status" like most people do. i just like to shoot and go to matches to improve the skills.

winning comps doesn't improve your lifestyle or actually give you any benefits in life, it's just a hobby for over 95% of the shooters. it's actually an expensive hobby for most avid shooters, plus it takes up a lot of time. keep it real or join the military. everyone else is just a bunch of weekend warriors like myself.

i've done the whole status thing in real life. it doesn't get you anywhere either. big house, nice car, jewelry, etc. it all doesn't mean anything or have real value. chasing status is a never, ending story. it's like a dog chasing it's tale. my 2 cents.

wildcard
07-02-2008, 4:21 PM
I personally like competition. It keeps you sharp.. gives you a chance to shoot with the best.. and lets you know where you stand.

I think .22 LR is fun.. but it lacks the same degree of skillsets necessary in Tac Precision.

Shooting probably doesn't improve your lifestyle.. but it sure improves the quality of life through fulfillment if it's something you enjoy doing. But like everything else (including the things that people enjoy doing) it takes time and money.

I'll admit it.. I love the spirit of competition and seeing how I rank. Gets the adrenaline pumping and sometimes lets you get a piece of the prize table :)

Strive to be the best.. but acknowledge that there's always/ will be someone better.

Timberwolf
07-02-2008, 4:45 PM
I think .22 LR is fun.. but it lacks the same degree of skillsets necessary in Tac Precision.



I know of at least 12 people that would highly disagree with you - the skill sets required to drive a 22LR at 50 to 200 yards accurately are the same if not tougher than those required to drive a 308 100 - 600 yards with the same degree of accuracy. Thats why we started training with 22LRs.

Be there on 0809 and I bet when all is said and done you'll amend your thinking.

Novadesigns
07-02-2008, 4:46 PM
Different strokes and all that... we all get something different out of it. As long as we're all having fun, being nice and helpful to each other and being safe about it, its all good.

I love .22. I've shot it since I was 9 and the thing I really like about the tac/prec stuff is it challenges you to push the boundaries of what's possible. Most shooters never get off the bench and try something new. I shot .22lr for years at no further than 50 yards, chasing smaller and smaller groups. It was fun until I was locking the rifle down so far that I was nothing more than a monkey flipping the switch... everything else was high $$$ machinery and ammo.
I never ever considered shooting it out to 200, 300 or even 400 yards! Nobody does that with .22lr! But damn its really fun and has a whole new world of challenges.

.308 (and up) is indeed a different animal for 2 big reasons to me: recoil and distance.
.22s are easy to hold and fire, all day long. And when you're shooting at less than 200 yards you can see what you're trying to hit pretty easily. Shooting at 1,000 yards + its difficult to see what you're doing without a big spotting scope, hell even 500 yards is hard for my old, crappy eyes.

And recoil is something I'm still coming to terms with. Its brutally unforgiving of a sloppy hold. And I have to have a much heavier rifle in order to handle it, so offhand is much more challenging too.

I have a lot to learn and to practice. But the upside is I'm not bored with shooting any more! :clap:

Cypriss32
07-02-2008, 5:21 PM
Your 06 might be as cool as mine! Whos building it again? You run a 1-10tw, top feeder? That new bottom metal for AICS mags can be made for m70 L/A now. Mine feeds fine threw the mags.

Timberwolf
07-02-2008, 5:27 PM
Your 06 might be as cool as mine! Whos building it again? You run a 1-10tw, top feeder? That new bottom metal for AICS mags can be made for m70 L/A now. Mine feeds fine threw the mags.

Mike Lau will be building it - it will be a early 60s M70 sniper rifle with either a 10 or 12X (I know the USMC used 8X or 10X but I need a little more) Unertl scope. It'll be true to form with a pre 64 action, and will be in a sporter stock that has had its barrel channel opened to accomodate a med varmint barrel. No bipod - will be shooting either slung up or off a ruck

Cypriss32
07-02-2008, 5:42 PM
Cool.... You working this weekend? Need to have you crono my loads and sight in the rifles.....

Spaniard
07-02-2008, 5:44 PM
The open slot has been filled.

Spaniard

PistolPete75
07-02-2008, 8:03 PM
I personally like competition. It keeps you sharp.. gives you a chance to shoot with the best.. and lets you know where you stand.

I think .22 LR is fun.. but it lacks the same degree of skillsets necessary in Tac Precision.

Shooting probably doesn't improve your lifestyle.. but it sure improves the quality of life through fulfillment if it's something you enjoy doing. But like everything else (including the things that people enjoy doing) it takes time and money.

I'll admit it.. I love the spirit of competition and seeing how I rank. Gets the adrenaline pumping and sometimes lets you get a piece of the prize table :)

Strive to be the best.. but acknowledge that there's always/ will be someone better.


I never said anything about competition being bad, but it can very easily stir up certain human emotions that does cause tension between people. Competition brings people to reach new levels which is good. The flip side is when people are serious about things, they can take things out of perspective. This is just one of those human behavorial traits that can bit you in the ***. Pride, the feeling that one is superior than others, can cause alot of trouble.

What I meant was don't be knocking .22lr tactical shooting just because it's a .22lr A .22lr has inferior bc, infact crappy bc which just makes it harder to shoot it in the wind than a .308 with a hi-powered scope or a wind fighting .243 or .260 with a high bc bullet.

In terms of why people shoot and why people compete, that is a whole new topic and theory that I came to. I personally like to shoot for fun. I believe in it's pure form that why a person should be shooting for. Otherwise, it's for something else rather than shooting but for personal gratification for various reasons depending on the individual. Some peope shoot for a "reality" escape from life, work, and all of everyday life struggles. Some believe they are Rambo-type, Super-sniper guy that escapes from their "plain" and borring life (it's a form of self identification with a subculture and a pretending of being something that they are not cause they feel unhappy about their own personal life, i.e. the lieing "ex-sniper, seal, green beret, etc." at the local range or gun store). Some shoot for reconition amongst peers/family to feel accepted perhaps to having a lack of acceptance from peers/family in their "early" years (the feeling of being in a club and being accepted). Some shoot for a bonding experience with their son. Some shoot cause they simply are real good at it, and when people are good at something they feel they are at the top of their "class" which gives them stature amongst their peers. And the list goes on... Point of all this gibber jabber is that amongst all the competition, matches, etc. weather your a poor shooter or a good shooter be respectful of other shooters. The one common bond we all have is shooting. Don't let shooting and other things like pride, etc. get in the way before relationships. Simply said, we all should just shut up and shoot.

wildcard
07-02-2008, 8:41 PM
Be there on 0809 and I bet when all is said and done you'll amend your thinking.

You promise? :)

Pascal
07-02-2008, 9:36 PM
"I think .22 LR is fun.. but it lacks the same degree of skillsets necessary in Tac Precision. "

Jason,

I thought the same thing but doing the match changed my opinion.

It's the same mental game (which for me is 50% of a match)

U got more stages which allows you to catch up if u do mistakes.

You need to use the same skills albeit on a short distance

But my opinion after the match was... IT FEELS THE SAME!

It really does...try it

Timberwolf
07-02-2008, 10:10 PM
Cool.... You working this weekend? Need to have you crono my loads and sight in the rifles.....

Of course I'm working

Vu 308
07-03-2008, 8:03 AM
shooting a .22lr in windy conditions would have the same difficulty as shooting a true Hipower/Big Bore rifle like a .308

i have nothing to prove to anyone. shooting a .22lr match would be as fun as shooting a regular hipower match.

plus, there is less of an arms race in a .22lr match which keeps it more fun in my opinion.

i don't compete for "status" like most people do. i just like to shoot and go to matches to improve the skills.

winning comps doesn't improve your lifestyle or actually give you any benefits in life, it's just a hobby for over 95% of the shooters. it's actually an expensive hobby for most avid shooters, plus it takes up a lot of time. keep it real or join the military. everyone else is just a bunch of weekend warriors like myself.

i've done the whole status thing in real life. it doesn't get you anywhere either. big house, nice car, jewelry, etc. it all doesn't mean anything or have real value. chasing status is a never, ending story. it's like a dog chasing it's tale. my 2 cents.


LOL..come on now Pete. 22LR is fun and challenging in it's own arena. Great training and great fun. But shooting a 22LR out to 200 to 250 or even 300 is not the same as shooting out to 1K or beyond.

It's not about proving things or status. We are high power LR shooters. Not 22 small bore shooters. The 22LR is a great training rig and we plan to build a bunch of them up here.

"winning comps doesn't improve your lifestyle or actually give you any benefits in life, it's just a hobby for over 95% of the shooters. it's actually an expensive hobby for most avid shooters, plus it takes up a lot of time. keep it real or join the military. everyone else is just a bunch of weekend warriors like myself."

What does this have to do with shooting? LOL Come on man. Keep it real or join the military???? So if a guy takes competitive shooting seriously he should join up?

Expensive? Time consuming? Tell me what hobby isn't?

Someone mentioned 22LR for next years North Vs South. I simply said no...we have a 1K range and a 550 yard steel range. Twolfs putting it on at APS this year so we're taking 12 guys to see where we stack up against you guys. All in good fun and pride of the different "shooting clubs"

For fun? Sure. For pride? Hell yah. Whooping *** is a whole lot more valueable than any prize that can be pulled off a table.

I mean why bother having a custom rifle and all the hardware if you just "messing around" You can do that with a 5R and a super sniper and be good to go.


"i've done the whole status thing in real life. it doesn't get you anywhere either. big house, nice car, jewelry, etc. it all doesn't mean anything or have real value. chasing status is a never, ending story. it's like a dog chasing it's tale."

Still don't understand where this comes in on shooting competition.


And if you think status has to do with material things..you still got a lot to learn my friend....but that is another thread and another post.

Vu 308
07-03-2008, 8:21 AM
In terms of why people shoot and why people compete, that is a whole new topic and theory that I came to. I personally like to shoot for fun. I believe in it's pure form that why a person should be shooting for. Otherwise, it's for something else rather than shooting but for personal gratification for various reasons depending on the individual. Some peope shoot for a "reality" escape from life, work, and all of everyday life struggles. Some believe they are Rambo-type, Super-sniper guy that escapes from their "plain" and borring life (it's a form of self identification with a subculture and a pretending of being something that they are not cause they feel unhappy about their own personal life, i.e. the lieing "ex-sniper, seal, green beret, etc." at the local range or gun store). Some shoot for reconition amongst peers/family to feel accepted perhaps to having a lack of acceptance from peers/family in their "early" years (the feeling of being in a club and being accepted). Some shoot for a bonding experience with their son. Some shoot cause they simply are real good at it, and when people are good at something they feel they are at the top of their "class" which gives them stature amongst their peers. And the list goes on... Point of all this gibber jabber is that amongst all the competition, matches, etc. weather your a poor shooter or a good shooter be respectful of other shooters. The one common bond we all have is shooting. Don't let shooting and other things like pride, etc. get in the way before relationships. Simply said, we all should just shut up and shoot.

Pete,

Shooting for fun is fine and the majority of people do that.

Personally, I have always been a competitive person. Competed in all different type of things from mtn bike racing to drag racing.

I have fun each and every time I pull the trigger with the guys on the range but on the other hand each one of us is out there to win. Not do OK, not hope to hit the target, but to win and to know on that day, in those conditions, among your peers, you were at the top of your game.

Do I look down on the guy that just comes out to plink or pull the trigger? Nah. I think that is great. The more shooters we have the better off we are, especially in CA. You and I are in the same boat no matter how different our opinions might be on other things.

Up here we have about 50/50. 50 of the guys up here are in it to win. The other half just come out and have a good time with the boys, escape their wives, their crying rug rats, their jobs, their whatever. + the BBQ. LOL

Bottom line is to each their own. Don’t knock the guy having a good time or the guy that pours his heart and soul into this game. Some guys just like to be on top and to win. I am one of those guys. Do I win? HELL NAH. But I try. =)

Edited to add: who is brining beer next weekend?

PistolPete75
07-03-2008, 9:09 AM
I'm simply saying don't knock .22lr shooting. That's it. You and I can be on totally different tangents, but I won't hold that against you. :)

In terms of status, I meant in terms like social status which can be interpreted by material things and/or within peers for the mere sake of trying to earns someone's respect by buying things or doing things that they think will impress others. It's all the same thing except for "natural" status which is given by nobel actions and deeds, for one having a strong moral character. This is the only status that truely holds value in life. Something that can't never be bought and is truely earned.

Anyways, I'll bring the beers. None of these remarks are targeted against you. I'm simply stating that I haven't really been on this forum for a few months, and now that I'm back it still feels the same from where it left off. There are many more members of this precision forum that have joined within the last few months. With more people, there are more personality differences. I don't want it to be like SH where people fight and bicker. This is a local forum of which most shooters see each other quite often. It would be nice if things on topic stay on a friendly level. I think ultimately it would bring more people in on the board.

And on a side note, I've been trying to control my own anger. When I get fustrated, I get angry. It's a natural defense mechanism that I have built in me. I must have picked it up cause when I was little, I used to have to fight my way around the neighborhood. Being the only asain around the block, I had to kick *** or be kicked. I apoligize for my harsh words a few months ago.

I'm saying I see certain things between people or certain words that are talked between people. I myself rather not be involved in any of the bs. I started shooting cause it was a solo sport, but I meet alot of nice guys from this board. I rather shoot with a bunch of friends that can still be competitive yet keep things cool without smart remarks and that kind of stuff that brings tension amongst others. Otherwise it's the same **** that goes on in life. I don't need the drama.

wildcard
07-03-2008, 9:49 AM
Ryan:
So you going up to NorCal this Saturday or you going to come wander the forest? Stay over friday and have some good pho!

Pete and Ryan:
So we going to Angeles or setting up paper in the desert this Sunday?

rksimple
07-03-2008, 9:57 AM
I'm hitting the forest with you guys. Friday night the wife has a BBQ planned, so no pho for me. Joe called me yesterday and has the plywood all ready for the desert on Sunday. There are some natural drop offs and steep hills out there where we can set up the targets and use the drop offs like pits. Bring your radios.

PistolPete75
07-03-2008, 10:03 AM
I would love to shoot on sunday, but I think Angeles would be ideal for practice shooting for the match. I can still do the desert though.

If we do the desert thing, we should stick to shooting uphill/downhill shooting. No need to go past 600yards for scprc.

by the way, pho 999 has the best pho. i'll take a large 19 with a tai ice tea.

PistolPete75
07-03-2008, 10:08 AM
Dude I'm trying to close up a deal. I've gotten to the point where I'm paying for her hotel fees till she buys a house. If I close this deal, I get to do the next one which would be a million dollar purchase. This would be the only reason by any chance if I have to work on sunday. Predisclosure.

So far we are house hunting to day. Hopefully putting in another offer today. If that happens, I'm good to go.

wildcard
07-03-2008, 10:10 AM
I would love to shoot on sunday, but I think Angeles would be ideal for practice shooting for the match. I can still do the desert though.

If we do the desert thing, we should stick to shooting uphill/downhill shooting. No need to go past 600yards for scprc.

by the way, pho 999 has the best pho. i'll take a large 19 with a tai ice tea.

Angeles and the Desert both have major advantages and disadvantages as far as getting ready for SCPRC goes.

Angeles will let you shoot steel out to 600 yds at a similar altitude.
Desert will let us shoot paper out to 600 yds at a higher altitude.

I like the desert idea because then we can also shoot at 25 yds and 50 yds. Plus I've only shot my setup 3 times so I haven't got any solid dope yet. If the paint on the targets at Angeles is chewed up, then we're SOL.

Everyone thinks that their Pho place is the best.. I demand a taste test! :)

PistolPete75
07-03-2008, 10:25 AM
I know angeles paints their steel like three times a week. I believe by sunday the steel will be all shot up, but I am pretty dam confident that I can still see the splash out of my scope to 400yards. Either way, I'm good. I have alot of reloading to do tomorrow.

But for reals, pho 999 is realllllll good. We should do a taste test.

Prc329
07-03-2008, 11:52 AM
I know angeles paints their steel like three times a week. I believe by sunday the steel will be all shot up, but I am pretty dam confident that I can still see the splash out of my scope to 400yards. Either way, I'm good. I have alot of reloading to do tomorrow.

But for reals, pho 999 is realllllll good. We should do a taste test.

A lot of there steel swings as well. I believe they do a fresh coat saturday morning for sure.

Cypriss32
07-03-2008, 1:53 PM
Let me know if you want desert..... We can take my truck and save money taking 2 cars...

PistolPete75
07-03-2008, 2:01 PM
ok sounds like it's a plan then.

PistolPete75
07-03-2008, 2:03 PM
nayt, take a haul up north. it'll be nice shooting with you again. i'll ask joe to do a bolt mod for you, while we hang out and drink a beer. buy a 12 pack, go home with a bolt mod.

Cypriss32
07-03-2008, 7:50 PM
Whats the Verdict?

Prc329
07-03-2008, 9:07 PM
nayt, take a haul up north. it'll be nice shooting with you again. i'll ask joe to do a bolt mod for you, while we hang out and drink a beer. buy a 12 pack, go home with a bolt mod.

Funny, I was just talking to the wife about missing shooting with you guys. We are going to plan something in a couple of weeks. I'll let you guys know.

ar15barrels
07-03-2008, 9:24 PM
Angeles and the Desert both have major advantages and disadvantages as far as getting ready for SCPRC goes.

Angeles will let you shoot steel out to 600 yds at a similar altitude.
Desert will let us shoot paper out to 600 yds at a higher altitude.


I would like to join you guys Sunday if possible.
I shot at angeles today, only on the pistol side though as the cops had the rifle side locked down for training.

Air pressure will make more difference to your dope than the elevation will.

Just for fun, here are 6 quicktarget passes, all on the same load, with the only change being to elevation.
This uses a standard atmosphere model.
I think you get larger swings in air density through air pressure changes than through elevation changes.

Tabular trajectory data at Army Std.METRO Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 0 ft.
Air density : 0.075126 lb./ft³

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Gun / Ammunition : Rem700HS,*308
Bullet : .308, 155, Sierra HPBT Palma MK 215
Bullet weight : 155 grains or 10.04 Grams
Muzzle velocity : 2980 fps
Crosswind speed : 10 Mph
Ballistic Coefficient(s) (G1):
C1=0.450@V>2600 fps;
C2=0.443@V>1800 fps;
C3=0.417@V>0 fps;


Optimum trajectory information :
Optimum sight-in range (X) = 224 Yds.
with max. ordinate above LOS at range (M)= 134 Yds.
and max. point blank range (P)= 260 Yds.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sight-in clicks, 1 click = 0.665 cm/100 yd. or 0.262 in/100 yd.
Height of sight above bore axis = 5.08 cm or 2.00 inch
Gun is zeroed-in at 100 yds,
by sighting-in at level firing
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 96 2782 0.1001 2663 0.0 0.6 0.61 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.10
X 100 2774 0.1045 2647 0.0 0.7 0.64 2.1 0.0 0.00 1.14
P 188 2600 0.2032 2326 -2.0 2.4 1.24 7.6 +4.0 +1.01 2.22
| 200 2576 0.2171 2284 -2.6 2.8 1.32 8.7 +4.9 +1.22 2.37
| 300 2384 0.3374 1956 -10.3 6.2 1.98 20.4 +13.1 +3.26 3.69
| 400 2201 0.4688 1667 -24.2 11.6 2.78 38.4 +23.1 +5.78 5.13
| 500 2026 0.6107 1412 -45.3 18.9 3.61 63.6 +34.6 +8.65 6.68
| 600 1858 0.7640 1188 -74.5 28.2 4.48 96.9 +47.4 +11.86 8.36
| 700 1696 0.9348 990 -114.8 40.5 5.53 141.2 +62.6 +15.66 10.22
| 800 1541 1.1209 818 -167.0 55.5 6.63 197.5 +79.7 +19.94 12.26
| 900 1400 1.3238 675 -233.8 73.5 7.80 268.3 +99.2 +24.80 14.48
| 1000 1278 1.5488 562 -319.9 95.4 9.11 358.5 +122.2 +30.55 16.94
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
M = Peak vs. L.O.S, X = Set Zero, P = Max. Point Blank Range
Elevation above Angle of Site (0.0 deg.) = 0.0646 deg.

Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 1000 ft.
Air density : 0.072952 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 96 2787 0.0999 2674 0.0 0.6 0.58 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.09
X 100 2780 0.1043 2659 0.0 0.6 0.61 2.1 0.0 0.00 1.14
P 188 2611 0.2027 2346 -2.0 2.4 1.20 7.6 +4.0 +1.00 2.22
| 200 2588 0.2166 2305 -2.5 2.7 1.28 8.6 +4.9 +1.21 2.37
| 300 2402 0.3362 1985 -10.2 6.0 1.91 20.3 +13.0 +3.24 3.68
| 400 2223 0.4664 1701 -24.0 11.2 2.68 38.2 +22.9 +5.72 5.10
| 500 2052 0.6070 1449 -44.8 18.2 3.48 63.0 +34.2 +8.55 6.64
| 600 1888 0.7577 1227 -73.4 27.0 4.30 95.7 +46.7 +11.69 8.29
| 700 1731 0.9251 1031 -112.7 38.8 5.29 139.1 +61.5 +15.37 10.12
| 800 1578 1.1080 857 -163.8 53.3 6.36 194.2 +78.2 +19.56 12.12
| 900 1437 1.3054 711 -228.2 70.3 7.46 262.7 +96.9 +24.22 14.28
| 1000 1313 1.5248 593 -311.4 91.2 8.71 349.9 +118.9 +29.74 16.68

Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 2000 ft.
Air density : 0.070855 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 96 2793 0.0998 2685 0.0 0.6 0.56 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.09
X 100 2785 0.1042 2670 0.0 0.6 0.59 2.0 0.0 0.00 1.14
P 188 2621 0.2023 2365 -2.0 2.3 1.17 7.6 +4.0 +1.00 2.21
| 200 2599 0.2162 2325 -2.5 2.6 1.24 8.6 +4.8 +1.21 2.36
| 300 2418 0.3351 2012 -10.1 5.8 1.85 20.2 +12.9 +3.21 3.66
| 400 2244 0.4641 1733 -23.7 10.8 2.58 37.9 +22.6 +5.66 5.08
| 500 2077 0.6034 1485 -44.3 17.6 3.36 62.5 +33.8 +8.46 6.60
| 600 1917 0.7520 1265 -72.5 26.0 4.14 94.7 +46.1 +11.53 8.22
| 700 1765 0.9159 1072 -110.8 37.2 5.07 137.1 +60.4 +15.11 10.02
| 800 1614 1.0956 897 -160.8 51.1 6.10 191.1 +76.8 +19.19 11.98
| 900 1474 1.2887 748 -223.4 67.4 7.15 257.8 +94.8 +23.70 14.09
| 1000 1348 1.5018 626 -303.3 87.1 8.32 341.8 +115.9 +28.96 16.42

ar15barrels
07-03-2008, 9:25 PM
Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 3000 ft.
Air density : 0.068803 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 97 2797 0.1008 2692 0.0 0.5 0.54 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.10
X 100 2791 0.1040 2681 0.0 0.6 0.56 2.0 0.0 0.00 1.14
P 189 2630 0.2030 2380 -2.0 2.2 1.13 7.6 +4.0 +1.01 2.22
| 200 2610 0.2157 2345 -2.5 2.5 1.20 8.6 +4.8 +1.20 2.36
| 300 2435 0.3341 2040 -10.0 5.6 1.80 20.2 +12.8 +3.20 3.65
| 400 2265 0.4618 1765 -23.5 10.4 2.48 37.6 +22.4 +5.60 5.05
| 500 2102 0.5998 1521 -43.8 17.0 3.24 62.0 +33.5 +8.37 6.56
| 600 1946 0.7467 1304 -71.6 25.1 4.00 93.9 +45.6 +11.40 8.17
| 700 1797 0.9071 1111 -108.9 35.6 4.86 135.2 +59.4 +14.86 9.92
| 800 1650 1.0834 937 -157.8 48.9 5.84 188.1 +75.3 +18.83 11.85
| 900 1511 1.2733 786 -219.0 64.6 6.86 253.4 +93.0 +23.24 13.92
| 1000 1385 1.4795 660 -295.6 83.2 7.95 334.1 +112.9 +28.23 16.18

Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 4000 ft.
Air density : 0.066794 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 97 2802 0.1006 2702 0.0 0.5 0.51 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.10
X 100 2797 0.1038 2692 0.0 0.6 0.53 2.0 0.0 0.00 1.14
P 189 2640 0.2026 2399 -2.0 2.2 1.09 7.6 +4.0 +1.00 2.22
| 200 2621 0.2151 2364 -2.5 2.4 1.16 8.6 +4.8 +1.19 2.35
| 300 2451 0.3332 2067 -10.0 5.5 1.75 20.1 +12.7 +3.18 3.64
| 400 2285 0.4596 1797 -23.2 10.0 2.39 37.4 +22.2 +5.55 5.03
| 500 2127 0.5963 1557 -43.3 16.4 3.12 61.5 +33.1 +8.28 6.52
| 600 1974 0.7421 1342 -70.9 24.3 3.87 93.1 +45.1 +11.28 8.12
| 700 1828 0.8987 1150 -107.1 34.1 4.66 133.4 +58.5 +14.62 9.83
| 800 1686 1.0715 978 -154.8 46.8 5.59 185.1 +73.9 +18.48 11.72
| 900 1549 1.2582 826 -214.8 62.0 6.58 249.2 +91.2 +22.79 13.76
| 1000 1422 1.4584 696 -288.6 79.5 7.59 326.9 +110.2 +27.55 15.95

Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 5000 ft.
Air density : 0.064828 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 97 2807 0.1004 2713 0.0 0.5 0.48 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.10
X 100 2802 0.1036 2702 0.0 0.5 0.50 2.0 0.0 0.00 1.13
P 189 2650 0.2021 2417 -2.0 2.1 1.05 7.6 +4.0 +0.99 2.21
| 200 2632 0.2146 2383 -2.5 2.3 1.12 8.5 +4.7 +1.18 2.35
| 300 2466 0.3324 2093 -9.9 5.3 1.70 20.0 +12.7 +3.17 3.63
| 400 2305 0.4575 1829 -23.0 9.6 2.30 37.1 +22.0 +5.50 5.00
| 500 2151 0.5928 1592 -42.9 15.7 3.01 61.0 +32.7 +8.19 6.48
| 600 2002 0.7372 1380 -70.1 23.4 3.73 92.3 +44.6 +11.16 8.06
| 700 1859 0.8908 1190 -105.5 32.8 4.47 131.7 +57.6 +14.39 9.74
| 800 1721 1.0600 1020 -152.0 44.8 5.35 182.3 +72.6 +18.15 11.59
| 900 1587 1.2433 866 -210.7 59.4 6.30 244.9 +89.4 +22.35 13.60
| 1000 1460 1.4389 733 -282.2 76.1 7.26 320.5 +107.8 +26.95 15.74

Tabular trajectory data at Non-Std. Atmosphere
Gunsite altitude : 6000 ft.
Air density : 0.062905 lb./ft³
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Range Velo Time of Energy Path Deflection Total Sight correction Target
city flight to at crosswind drop for setting new lead
LOS of 10.0 Mph zero range 33 fps
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
·Yards fps s ft.lbs. in. in. MOA in. Clicks MOA yds ·
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 0 2980 0.0000 3056 -2.0 0.0 ----- 0.0 ------ ----- 0.00
M 97 2813 0.1003 2723 0.0 0.5 0.46 1.9 0.0 0.00 1.10
X 100 2808 0.1035 2713 0.0 0.5 0.47 2.0 0.0 0.00 1.13
P 190 2658 0.2028 2432 -2.0 2.0 1.02 7.6 +4.0 +1.00 2.22
| 200 2642 0.2142 2402 -2.5 2.3 1.08 8.5 +4.7 +1.17 2.34
| 300 2482 0.3314 2119 -9.9 5.2 1.65 20.0 +12.6 +3.15 3.62
| 400 2325 0.4555 1861 -22.8 9.3 2.22 36.9 +21.8 +5.45 4.98
| 500 2175 0.5894 1628 -42.4 15.1 2.89 60.5 +32.4 +8.10 6.45
| 600 2030 0.7324 1418 -69.3 22.6 3.60 91.5 +44.1 +11.03 8.01
| 700 1890 0.8836 1229 -104.1 31.5 4.30 130.3 +56.8 +14.20 9.66
| 800 1757 1.0490 1062 -149.4 42.9 5.12 179.6 +71.3 +17.83 11.47
| 900 1624 1.2288 907 -206.6 56.8 6.03 240.8 +87.7 +21.92 13.44
| 1000 1498 1.4210 772 -276.6 72.9 6.96 314.9 +105.6 +26.41 15.54

Cypriss32
07-03-2008, 9:30 PM
Randall building my ar tommarrow? Let me know were to go!

wildcard
07-04-2008, 9:21 AM
I would like to join you guys Sunday if possible.
I shot at angeles today, only on the pistol side though as the cops had the rifle side locked down for training.

Air pressure will make more difference to your dope than the elevation will.

Just for fun, here are 6 quicktarget passes, all on the same load, with the only change being to elevation.
This uses a standard atmosphere model.
I think you get larger swings in air density through air pressure changes than through elevation changes.


Join the fun! I'd offer to carpool but me and Pete plus gear in my little car doesn't leave room for much else.

Isn't air density simply a function of elevation? The numbers may be different (air density vs. elevation) but the effects are the same.

Cypriss32
07-04-2008, 9:24 AM
Whats the verdict guys.....

ar15barrels
07-04-2008, 2:11 PM
Join the fun! I'd offer to carpool but me and Pete plus gear in my little car doesn't leave room for much else.

Isn't air density simply a function of elevation? The numbers may be different (air density vs. elevation) but the effects are the same.

Air density is a function of air pressure, elevation, humidity and temperature.
Of those factors, air pressure makes the biggest difference in density.
The bullet only reacts differently because of the density changes.
All the factors effect density to some respect, but none as much as initial air pressure.

Obviously, as you raise elevation within the same weather system, density goes down and that's where elevation plays into it.

However, if you get dope one day and a weather system comes in, your dope may not necessarily be accurate again at the same elevation.

You could also have dope from a completely different elevation be spot-on because differences in air pressure made the net air density the same at the two different elevations on two diferent days.

Get one of the Kestrels that shows Air Density Altitude and then just get your dope at different air density altitudes and you are set no matter where you go.

The quicktarget passes above show my dopes for the different air density altitudes from 0 to 6000ft in a standard atmosphere.
The kestrel air density altitude is based on a standard atmosphere.
The last match at WEGC, the air density altitude was around 1800 to 1900ft.

postal
07-05-2008, 12:31 AM
Air pressure changes all the time.

Think when you watch the weather on the news, and they say a hi pressure system is coming, or a low front is coming.....

This is exactly what they're talking about. Minor variations on air pressure every single day at the same location. But when the news calls for a hi/lo pressure front it usually means a significant change.

ar15barrels
07-05-2008, 12:56 AM
Air pressure changes all the time.

I look at my Kestrel several times a day throughout a match. ;)

Pascal
07-05-2008, 7:25 AM
I look at my Kestrel several times a day throughout a match. ;)

I usually throw bones on the ground and try to interpret what that means in terms of elevation changes.

I also know that if an black eagle pass by the top of back mountain at WEGC between 9 and 12 a.m., it is going to be a good match with very little windage.

If a rattlesnakes bit you just before a match, I also know that, even with the right elevation and windage, you still won't do very well for that match and knowing air pressure won't help either.

Aside from that, Air pressure is what does it for me too and if I don't have that info, I use elevation.

Spaniard
07-05-2008, 8:54 AM
Well I would say this topic got a little off course from where it started originally, but that's ok it's the nature of things. A slot was open and a slot was quickly filled, that's all that matters.

However, since there has been so much discussion on weather reading, KESTREL has been so kind and donated a Ketsrel 4000 NV Weather station for the prize table this year.

So if you don't have one you will at least have the chance to win one at the 2008 SCPRC.

By the way the Frog forgot to mention this years SCPRC in the year of 2008, the year of the Falcon is a "Leap Year" and we are now entering the last dark cycle of the 3rd moon of planet Zoron. Which simply means that the peak of gravitational pull and the obscure direction of day light will climax during July 12th & 13th during the match. So what I am telling you is that all your shooting data is now relatively useless with these two crucial factors present and you will have to rely on basics to get you to the finish line. Old school for those of you that know it.

I forgot to mention that with so much on my mind about the match. I am most sorry, please accept a thousand pardons, I should have said something about it, so sorry...:wacko:

There is only one Jedi Knight that knew all about it and said he would share that information with the troops, however I can see has not and is only looking out for himself. It's going to be a tough match this year. I do a have a picture of this Jedi, it's when he was about 400 years old, so it is dated. Perhaps you can find out who it is and keep an eye for his tricks.

Mark-Spaniard....I know how do "tangents" too....;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/patriotspaniard/jockey.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/patriotspaniard/Kestrel4000NV.jpg

ar15barrels
07-05-2008, 9:28 AM
I usually throw bones on the ground and try to interpret what that means in terms of elevation changes.

I may need to get together with you to learn more about the proper types of bones to throw and how to interpret what they mean.