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bigthaiboy
07-01-2008, 12:34 PM
Are there any Federal regulations which would prevent you from adding a pistol grip or folding stock and/ or adding a magazine tube expension to an imported pump action shotgun such as a Norinco, Charles Daly, or Benelli, assuming the shotgun already meets the federal 18" bbl and 26" OAL restrictions?

I'm guessing "no", since the Benelli M4 comes standard with a PG stock, but I was just curious to the legality of a stock-less pistol grip, or a PG and folding stock conversion on an imported pump shotguns.

randy
07-01-2008, 2:51 PM
The short answer is no but they make you use at least 3 characters. You can hang the kitchen sink off of it. If you want to really ruin it then run a stockless pistol grip.

bigthaiboy
07-01-2008, 10:52 PM
The short answer is no but they make you use at least 3 characters. You can hang the kitchen sink off of it. If you want to really ruin it then run a stockless pistol grip.


Not sure what you mean by "use at least 3 characters", but I'm sure it's very witty. ;)

I didn't think there were any federal restrictions, but thought it was prudent to check before doing anything. I'm not planning on "ruining" anything like a Benelli or a Browning, just toying with the idea of bolting a folder to a very inexpensive Chinese 870 clone.

randy
07-01-2008, 11:37 PM
The quick answer is no. The forum makes you use at least 3 characters for a post. I found this out when I tried to say no.

bigthaiboy
07-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Oh, thanks for the explanation. You learn something new about Calguns every day.

ar15barrels
07-04-2008, 4:19 PM
no. is 3 characters.

Charles Daly
07-04-2008, 8:04 PM
Unfortunately, there is a Federal restriction on such a modification.

US CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) Part 178.39
178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

...Part C reads:

(c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

ATF takes this law a step further and applies it to pump shotguns as well as semi-autos.

Benelli shotguns with pistol grip buttstocks are allowed to be imported into the US as "sporting" firearms because the pistol grip and the buttstock are one piece. If the pistol grip was removable, they would not allow it to be imported as a "sporting" firearm. This interpretation by BATF goes to the point that they consider a shotgun to be non-sporting if it has a detachable pistol grip that protrudes beneath the receiver of the shotgun.

Charles Daly is currently finishing the mold for its new pistol grip buttstock, similar to the Benelli, and we hope to have it ready in another 60 days. You will be able to buy this buttstock and attach it to your Charles Daly shotgun without running afoul of BATF.

Adding a magazine extension that would increase your capacity beyond 5 rounds would not be allowed under this same interpretation of the "sporting" criteria. The only way this would be legal would be to assemble the gun in the US and do it with the requisite 10 US made parts from the above list.

Having said all of the above, we know of no one who has ever been prosecuted for adding a pistol grip or magazine extension to their imported pump or semi-auto shotgun.

ar15barrels
07-04-2008, 8:22 PM
US CFR (Code of Federal Regulations) Part 178.39
[I] 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

Note the thread title: Imported Pump Shotguns Question

MAX100
07-04-2008, 8:48 PM
The ATF doesn't care it you add a tube extension to your imported shotgun. The SLP was import with a mag capacity greater than 5 rounds and Benelli was too for a while. Some of the high capacity imported SLP are still being sold.

I know of someone who called the ATF and ask about the imported shotgun law and the ATF agents he talked to didn't know anything about it. There are plenty of USA made tube extensions available for imported shotguns. Go to any 3 gun match and you will find tube extensions on imported shotguns.


GC

Crusader
07-05-2008, 10:39 AM
Ok, I have a question that somewhat branches off this then... I purchased a Benelli Supernova with the pistol grip/stock piece. Can I attach a magazine extension to it? I'd use one from Tac Star, which is an American company, so would it be legal?

ar15barrels
07-05-2008, 11:08 AM
Ok, I have a question that somewhat branches off this then... I purchased a Benelli Supernova with the pistol grip/stock piece. Can I attach a magazine extension to it? I'd use one from Tac Star, which is an American company, so would it be legal?

It's a pump.
You could use an imported tube and it would not matter.
The magazine extension tube is NOT a listed item.
Only the magazine tube itself is listed.
The magazine tube itself usually stays in the receiver.
It's a rare case where you actually remove the magazine tube from the receiver.

MAX100
07-05-2008, 11:36 AM
Crusader go back and read Charles Daly's post.

Adding a magazine extension that would increase your capacity beyond 5 rounds would not be allowed under this same interpretation of the "sporting" criteria. The only way this would be legal would be to assemble the gun in the US and do it with the requisite 10 US made parts from the above list.

GC

bigthaiboy
07-05-2008, 1:31 PM
Charles Daly is currently finishing the mold for its new pistol grip buttstock, similar to the Benelli, and we hope to have it ready in another 60 days. You will be able to buy this buttstock and attach it to your Charles Daly shotgun without running afoul of BATF.


Oh, that's interesting to hear. Any chance of a preview of what the P
G stock will look like, and what is the estimated retail on the new stock?
Many thanks.

Fjold
07-05-2008, 1:37 PM
It's a pump.

To paraphrase a famous post on here:

"You could hang a ***** or a hollowed out weasel on it"

Charles Daly
07-06-2008, 5:48 PM
Gentlemen, I know the meaning of the word "pump" and read the OP's question correctly.

I'm only telling you what BATF has told me, and every other importer that has attended the annual Importers Conference held in Washington, D.C. every August.

This topic comes up every year and BATF's answer is always the same. Semi-auto or pump shotgun magazine tube capacities in excess of 5 rounds do not meet the "sporting" criteria and cannot be imported into the US. Adding a magazine tube extension runs afoul of the "intent" of the law as once you have done so you have assembled a firearm from imported (and domestic) parts that would not be legal to import in its new configuration.

Several importers have had to either stop selling, stop importing, or recall, imported pump shotguns with magazine capacities in excess 5 rounds. If Benelli, or other brand guns, are still being sold with factory installed mag capacities in excess of 5 rounds, then they are from a shipment that was imported before BATF slapped them on the wrist, or they don't know the regs and a slap on the wrist is coming.

Go ahead and submit a Form 6 (import license) to BATF in DC, to import a pump with a 7 shot capacity and see how fast the license application gets denied. I'm guessing it will take about 5 minutes.

ETA: Or import a 5 shot gun, add a mag tube extension here in the US, call ATF in DC to tell them what you are doing, and see if they come knocking on your door.

Just because a BATF agent in the field is not aware of Washington's interpretation and application of the regs, does not mean that the home office does not have those regs.

I also said that no one has ever been prosecuted for such a domestic modification and as far as I'm concerned you can add a grenade launcher to your pump. It's no skin off my back. That doesn't mean that BATF won't have an issue with what you have done.

Fjold
07-06-2008, 6:23 PM
:threadjacked:


Mike,

Any chance that you can get the rights to import the left handed Zastava barreled/actions again since Big Green won't do it?

Charles Daly
07-06-2008, 6:39 PM
:threadjacked:


Mike,

Any chance that you can get the rights to import the left handed Zastava barreled/actions again since Big Green won't do it?

Nope, not a snowballs chance in .....

1. The LH models were not a big enough seller to warrant the time, effort and cost of selling just them.
2. Someday Rem may pick them up, and...
3. They (Zastava) screwed us royally when they gave the line to Big Green. I will never let that happen to us again.