Surprising fact: Half of gun deaths are suicides

[Steyr_223]

Hmm does this look correct?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080630/ap_on_re_us/gun_deaths_suicide;_ylt=Avs6DH2smm7GrRzqD9YZGj1H2o cA

By MIKE STOBBE, AP Medical Writer
30 minutes ago



ATLANTA - The Supreme Court's landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on citizens' ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on themselves.

Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year — gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.

Studies have also shown that homes in which a suicide occurred were three to five times more likely to have a gun present than households that did not experience a suicide, even after accounting for other risk factors.

In a 5-4 decision, the high court on Thursday struck down a handgun ban enacted in the District of Columbia in 1976 and rejected requirements that firearms have trigger locks or be kept disassembled. The ruling left intact the district's licensing restrictions for gun owners.

One public-health study found that suicide and homicide rates in the district dropped after the ban was adopted. The district has allowed shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

The American Public Health Association, the American Association of Suicidology and two other groups filed a legal brief supporting the district's ban. The brief challenged arguments that if a gun is not available, suicidal people will just kill themselves using other means.

More than 90 percent of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.

"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.

The high court's majority opinion made no mention of suicide. But in a dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer used the word 14 times in voicing concern about the impact of striking down the handgun ban.

"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in acts of domestic violence," Breyer wrote.

Researchers in other fields have raised questions about the public-health findings on guns.

Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.

Public-health experts have said the telephone survey methodology Kleck used likely resulted in an overestimate.

Both sides agree there has been a significant decline in the last decade in public-health research into gun violence.

The CDC traditionally was a primary funder of research on guns and gun-related injuries, allocating more than $2.1 million a year to such projects in the mid-1990s.

But the agency cut back research on the subject after Congress in 1996 ordered that none of the CDC's appropriations be used to promote gun control.

Vernick said the Supreme Court decision underscores the need for further study into what will happen to suicide and homicide rates in the district when the handgun ban is lifted.

Today, the CDC budgets less than $900,000 for firearm-related projects, and most of it is spent to track statistics. The agency no longer funds gun-related policy analysis.

___

On the Net:

CDC gun injury statistics: http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc

[CCWFacts]

It's true, guns are used in an awful lot of suicides. When a teenager or a young person does it, it's tragic. But when an older person has a painful, terminal disease, and decides that suffering for a few more months isn't worth it, I view that as a personal choice, not a tragedy. And many of these suicides are, in fact, older people (usually men) who would rather not continue living due to health situations.

Really, suicide takes many forms. Suicide with a gun is obvious and quick. But there are far more slow, non-obvious suicides with drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, food, traffic "accidents", or other unhealthy choices. These get reported not as suicide, but as "heart disease" or "liver failure" or whatever, but they are just slower, more passive forms of checking out early.

[.223]

Going further, does it really matter whether or not a gun is used in suicide? Anyone determined enough to check out early isn't going to be hindered by whether or not they can get a gun legally. And even though a gun would increase the chance of success, there are other methods that can be just as effective if the intent is serious enough.

[domokun]

Going further, does it really matter whether or not a gun is used in suicide? Anyone determined enough to check out early isn't going to be hindered by whether or not they can get a gun legally. And even though a gun would increase the chance of success, there are other methods that can be just as effective if the intent is serious enough.

Exactly. Some examples of non-gun methods are base jumping without a parachute, playing real-live frogger on a busy freeway, Seppuku with a knife, and the classic drug overdose.

Just like a determined criminal, a person who is determined to check-out of life early will eventually succeed. Ironically, it's a crime to perform doctor/medically assisted suicides yet the act of not doing anything to prevent a family member or friend from committing normal suicide is not a crime...

[mblat]

Number I've read was 40%? Like 14,000 out of 30,000 death?

"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.

WTF???? you are telling me jumping in front of moving train not as lethal?

[tombinghamthegreat]

Japan has a much higher suicide rate than the US despite a gun ban. Useful to remeber when the liberals "claim" high gun ownership leads to mass suicides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_suicide

Not the best source of info but i am suppose to be paying attention in class:rolleyes:

[odysseus]

Another tactic about firearms control, and honestly it angers me to push this agenda - it is disingenious and ignorant to go on about it.

Honestly it is the usual crap about looking at a symptom and not a problem. I have known people who committed suicide by hanging themselves, OD on a drug, and shooting themselves. My understanding is the Golden Gate bridge is the #1 site in the country for suicide by jumping.

People commit suicide by shooting themselves not because of the ease of doing so or that it is accessible, but because they are in pain. You think that banning firearms to them solves the issue? Is this the type of stupidity that people are brought to thinking on this issue? These people are ill, suffering, and need help. Suicide is the ultimate self-medication attempt because they feel (of course in error) there is no other solution to their problem.

That's the issue, not how they do it.

.

[tiki]

Number I've read was 40%? Like 14,000 out of 30,000 death?

Like 12,000 out of 30,000. :)

[Sutcliffe]

Yeah, it seems that half the firearms homicides are suicides. I know that a lot of gun cleaning 'accidents' are suicides as well.
As pointed out, Japan has very strict gun control laws and a suicide rate that is shocking for an industrialized nation.

[gd-bh]

Suicide is the ultimate self-medication attempt because they feel (of course in error) there is no other solution to their problem.

That's the issue, not how they do it.

.

anti gunners are just like the eco nazi's who are running around screaming "the sky is falling" about global warming and such carp: They simply cannot be bothered by "facts". For these fools, the only thing that matters is that they foist their idiotic views on everyone else around them.

[Glock22Fan]

Suicides are (or maybe that should be "were" as I haven't lived there for some time) illegal in England.

One of the few crimes where those guilty are not punished (not in this world, anyway). There is (was?) also a crime of "Attempted suicide" for people who failed, but fortunately the reality of the situation is recognized and I never hear of anyone going to court for this.

Suicide is the ultimate self-medication attempt because they feel (of course in error) there is no other solution to their problem.

Sorry, but the "of course in error" is B.S. There are people who are in great pain and who have good grounds for believing that life will not ever get better for them, only worse. We euthanize animals to spare them pointlessly painful deaths, why should humans not have the same option? Personally, I don't think that the option of continuing to die in great pain, embarassment and dispair is a "solution."

[deleted by PC police]

I have the cdc stats from that year and if memory serves there were more suicides by other means. I will have to go digging through it yet again.

[Mute]

Most stats that I've seen seem to concur that more than half of all gun deaths are suicides and if not that much, still a majority vs. accidental or intentional, non self-inflicted gun deaths.

[trashman]

What's interesting from a statistical standpoint is that, IIRC, of the typically more than half of all gun deaths that are suicides -- the overwhelming majority of suicides are *white men*.

My own sense is that most folks, even anti-gun folks, see the folly in trying to prevent suicide through a gun ban. All you've done is made a common method seem very exotic. And the ban won't prevent the suicide anyway.

--Neill

[postal]

I think it GREAT to hear this.

I'm so annoyed at anti gunners pointing out the high rate of suicide with guns. Who Fn CARES!?!?!?!?! If you want to kill yourself, go for it. If you dont have a gun, you will find another way. Slashers, pill poppers (bad way to go- I hear) Jumping off a building/bridge/ in front of traffic.... you name it-

If they want to kill themselves, they will find a way.

I cant understand why suicide is a "crime" anyway. Everything you read, everywhere in govt, is the "right to life." People do not *have* to excersize their rights. You have the right to remain silent..... and dont.... you have the right to free speech... some take vows of silence..... etc. The *right* to life... some people choose to give up that right. What's the problem?

I do think that Dr. Kevorkian (sp?) was doing a noble service- *assuming* that those patients could be deemed "of sound mind." If they are of "sound mind" and willingly chose assisted suicide, I have ZERO problem with it, and should have a right to do so. As pointed out above, many of them are terminally ill- they will NOT get better- they will only continue to deteriorate, and the pain will only get worse. Death becomes a sweet relief from unbearable pain. I knew a guy with AIDS that hung humself- He was getting pretty bad off, and he knew it- He knew it was going to kill him, and he'f rather just get it over with- I worked in a hospital for a number of years and had seen people in the "pain clinic" who even at a glance were in constant almost unbearable pain. It's clear that a person can be of sound mind, and still reach the conclusion that suicide is a viable option. And for the ones so debilitated by their physical condition, assisted suicide is the only way they could do it. Truly, I believe that Dr K was a hero for doing what he did *assuming* the patients could be judged of sound mind and came to the decision on their own- not lead into it, not of deficient mental faculties- which I believe All of them knew full well and understood and made their own decisions.

However, many people also commit suicide from depression. A mental health issue. Not a physical one. This in and of itself is actually beneficial to us battling the anti's..... No one here would disagree that we need to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill. The suicides which were not debilitating physical illness, were performed by the mentally incompetent. If someone unsuccessfully attempts suicide, they're treated for their wounds, put on suicide watch, and admitted to mental health care and counseling- Standard procedure. Clearly we see attempted suicide as a mental problem, and we all agree to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill right?

So the actions of the mentally defective should not be considered "ammunition" by the anti gun people. Since we agree the mentally defective should not be allowed possession in the first place..

[bigdave1121]

I read this story as being good news for gun rights advocates. If there are going to be 30,000 people a year killed by guns, then it's better to have the largest percentage be by suicide rather than homicide. Because it's easier to make the argument that without guns most of those people would've found another way to kill themselves, then by claiming that without guns most of those homicides still would have occured.

So the number that the anti's can actually use with some success - the number of homicides with guns - isn't nearly as great of a figure as the 30,000 that account for all gun deaths. You see what I'm saying? Does any of this makes sense?

[odysseus]

Sorry, but the "of course in error" is B.S. There are people who are in great pain and who have good grounds for believing that life will not ever get better for them, only worse."

B.S.??? You really, REALLY sure about that Glock22fan? Enough to just bring down a call of B.S. to someone else on the subject of suicide?

Have you lost anyone to suicide before? Ever know anyone who is\was bi-polar? Do you understand that for some suicide is a drastic error, and sad situation where help couldn't come or be around in time? That perhaps they were ill and that suicide was the symptom of a disease that was an end of the worst for them, that they didn't want to do it yet couldn't stop?

Obviously suicide is not a place for blanket statements. Don't let the emotions of your opinion regarding I assume being able to end your life as a terminally ill person, or "assisted suicide" creep into your response and then tell me all of what I say is B.S. :rolleyes:.

.

[radioburning]

Yeah, 40% of gun deaths are suicides. The majority of those are white men over forty. Roughly 11,000 actual murders using firearms annually. Not to be callous but 365,000(35 times the number of people murdered with guns)people die every year from "lack of exercise and poor diet" according to the CDC, but someone gets murdered with a gun and everyone starts screaming America's streets are awash with blood. You point this out to the anti's and all you hear is crickets for a minute, and then "but guns are bad and masses of people are dying every day!". I just shake my head, chuckle, turn around and walk away...

[Charliegone]

It's true, guns are used in an awful lot of suicides. When a teenager or a young person does it, it's tragic. But when an older person has a painful, terminal disease, and decides that suffering for a few more months isn't worth it, I view that as a personal choice, not a tragedy. And many of these suicides are, in fact, older people (usually men) who would rather not continue living due to health situations.

Really, suicide takes many forms. Suicide with a gun is obvious and quick. But there are far more slow, non-obvious suicides with drugs, cigarettes, alcohol, food, traffic "accidents", or other unhealthy choices. These get reported not as suicide, but as "heart disease" or "liver failure" or whatever, but they are just slower, more passive forms of checking out early.

Wait a minute. You're telling me guns don't cause suicide? And that half of the "murders" gun control advocates are suicides? :eek::rolleyes:





and yes that is sarcasm.

[bohoki]

they might have a logical falacy maybe it should be that half of suicides are committed with a gun the other half are really painful


that doesn't equal half of all gun deaths are suicides

its kinda like all androids are robots but robots are not androids

[Ding126]

Going further, does it really matter whether or not a gun is used in suicide? Anyone determined enough to check out early isn't going to be hindered by whether or not they can get a gun legally. And even though a gun would increase the chance of success, there are other methods that can be just as effective if the intent is serious enough.

Exactly...well stated. Ditto !!

[deleted by PC police]

Okay, the numbers....

This is according to the cdc's National Vital Statistics report: Deaths Final Data for 2001



Total Homicides 20,308
Homicides by firearm 11,348
Homicides by other means 8,960

Total Suicides 30,632
Suicideds by firearm 16,869
Suicide by other means 13,753

What you should get from this if you are rational is that if you want to kill yourself or someone else you are going to do it one way or the other. Almost half in each case didn't let the fact that they didn't have access to a gun stop them.

I thought I had 2005, will have to look for that later. I have the pdf if anyone wants it though i don't know how to post it. If you find the pdf the table is page 33 in the 2001 edition

ok, I found 2005

Total Homicides 18,124
Homicides by firearm 12,352
Homicides by other means 5,722

Total Suicides 32,637
Suicideds by firearm 17,002
Suicide by other means 15,635

[yellowfin]

Japan is only one example. Scandinavian countries also exhibit high suicide rates as does India, and from what I gather Russian firearms ownership is extremely hard to come by (ironically) yet they too have ridiculous numbers of self extinguishing.

[Olav]

Yeah, it seems that half the firearms homicides are suicides. I know that a lot of gun cleaning 'accidents' are suicides as well.
As pointed out, Japan has very strict gun control laws and a suicide rate that is shocking for an industrialized nation.

Here's an example of an gun cleaning "accident"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24935039/

Pretty tragic but accidental? Not.

[bigdave1121]

Here's an example of an gun cleaning "accident"

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24935039/

Pretty tragic but accidental? Not.

That's a good point. I wonder how many of these suicides were actually accidents and visa versa???

[tyrist]

Number I've read was 40%? Like 14,000 out of 30,000 death?


WTF???? you are telling me jumping in front of moving train not as lethal?

That is super messy and alot of people like to consider what their family would beable to see at a funeral. Looking for body parts sucks and when someone is hit by a train everything is seperated for the most part.

[bohoki]

i don't know if i am deranged but i would feel great if 100% of gun deaths were suicides is that supposed to be a bad thing? that they say 50%

[M. Sage]

Like a 12 gauge to the head is any better. If you are worried what your family will think, maybe you shouldn't be doing the deed in the first place.

I know people who've seen the aftermath. It's not really any better than the train, IMO. Everything in the room is destroyed. If it's in a vehicle, the vehicle is a total because of the mess.

Very, very messy.

[gd-bh]

So what is the politically correct answer to the "if it saves even one life, it's worth...blah blah blah" that will be the eventual comeback from the anti's, even if they were to cave on the self-inflicted stats?

[packnrat]

Going further, does it really matter whether or not a gun is used in suicide? Anyone determined enough to check out early isn't going to be hindered by whether or not they can get a gun legally. And even though a gun would increase the chance of success, there are other methods that can be just as effective if the intent is serious enough.

other ways to off ones self are not all ways that good. many many people who try drugs (pills) tend to urp them up and are in a coma for a very long time, or at least in a hospital racking up a very big bill....bad for the family.

blades, some just do not know how to do it right. end up just cutting them selve, maybe cutting a tendon or nerve and live with hand problems.

in japan (highest number of suicides in the world) they use long knives, as guns are just not around to the common people.


.

[yellowfin]

Because at least half a million lives are saved every year by armed citizens. The one has no right to tell the half million to roll over.

[tyrist]

Like a 12 gauge to the head is any better. If you are worried what your family will think, maybe you shouldn't be doing the deed in the first place.

Honestly yes. But i have only seen one 12 gauge and it was a bit suspicous since the gun had been racked after the shot.

[tyrist]

So what is the politically correct answer to the "if it saves even one life, it's worth...blah blah blah" that will be the eventual comeback from the anti's, even if they were to cave on the self-inflicted stats?

Ask them if they want us to stop living. Everything we do in live has a cost. I guarantee you somebody has died taking a dump on the toliet.

[packnrat]

when i die i want it to be in my sleep as my car goes off the rd over the cliff down a couple hundred feet to the bottom in a big thud.

not like the other people in said car screaming there fool heads off.



:eek:




yes bad joke,
death is to not be taken to lightly,
but if one wants out, is it proper to stop them??


.

[SKG19]

Total Homicides 18,124
Homicides by firearm 12,352
Homicides by other means 5,722


I'd like to know the demographic breakdown on this number. Maybe I'm the only one, but I'm not to worried about criminals killing each other off. Seems to me some have chosen lifestyles that make them more apt to catching lead.

[Gunm]

Exactly. Some examples of non-gun methods are base jumping without a parachute, playing real-live frogger on a busy freeway, Seppuku with a knife, You misspelled Sudoku. And it's done with a pencil, or a pen if you are skilled.:rolleyes:

Homicides by firearm 12,352
Suicides by firearm 17,002

People saved by firearm:Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.Because at least half a million lives are saved every year by armed citizens. The one has no right to tell the half million to roll over.Spock: Don't grieve, Admiral. It is logical. The needs of the many outweigh...
Kirk: ...the needs of the few.
Spock: ...Or the one. I never took the Kobayashi Maru test until now. What do you think of my solution?
Kirk: Spock...
Spock: I have been and always shall be your friend.
[Holds up his hand in the Vulcan salute]
Spock: Live long and prosper.

[CALI-gula]

I am hearing an ironic chorus of ignorance in this thread. Now anyone that knows me here, knows I am not, nor ever have been, one to label anyone individually or any general grouping among Calguns members with such epithets, and this is the first time I have ever done so, but I don’t think I can be so discreet in my choice of words on this topic.

The disgusting irony of this thread is the contributory nature of those vetting ridiculous vitriolic statements that do nothing but propagate the very stigma of that which may even lead to the detriment of the type of people being discussed in this article, and their use of firearms to do it, helping create these statistics in the first place.

First, depression, even deep depression, is NOT a mental illness. True, it can be the result of mental illness, but the numbers of that nature are but a sliver within the MINORITY of cases involving depression. There are so many sane and logical reasons people may fall into such a state. An outsider may not see it that way, but suicide is the curse of a thinking being. And I am willing to bet ALL people go through such contemplation at some point in their lives; if you haven't yet, I am willing to bet you will. When you do, you will be SHOCKED at how logical the action will seem to you.

Second, has anyone here considered that someone in such a state, that may also be a gun owner, may be afraid to bring up the topic of suicidal thoughts or express their deep depression to take steps as a preventative measure, merely because of the same such ignorant views as those being perpetuated here? That they may fear losing their rights to gun ownership simply for discussing such thoughts - WHICH ARE ONLY THOUGHTS AT THAT POINT IN TIME?

Such individuals may not feel able to freely talk about it, and then bury it within. They may fear finding themselves under the microscope of being derogatorily deemed insane, or a "loser" - and what does that mean on the 4473?. Even if they think their depression might only be temporary, they might repress it, or try to fight off the suicidal thoughts on their own (only making it worse by feeding the feeling they are an outcast) due to a fear that criticism will lead to their losing their right to own firearms, or lose a valuable gun collection. Ironic, eh?

If someone fears there may be repercussions for talking about the issues that plague them, the deeply depressed may try to resolve it on their own, for fear of being derided or losing respect of those around them. This only makes things worse.

Just because someone is depressed, even with thoughts of suicide, does not mean they will even act on it. But shut them out, tell them they are deranged, ill, and impress upon them that if they mention it they might lose their access to any number of the very things they might enjoy in this world, then yes, what was previously 20 to 50% of their thoughts turns into a darker shadow, eclipsing every part of their waking day, and one they must loom under alone. It only makes things worse, and eventually, the quickest tool to make that pain go away is suicide, and they just might rationalize that the quickest way to get the job done is something from their collection.

Quite often, suicidal thoughts can easily be lifted just by talk alone - why do you think their are so many suicide prevention hotlines? There is a reason why they have suicide prevention hotlines and not homicide prevention hotlines!. Because suicides are often committed after a great long period of thinking about it, philosophizing over it, bouncing the idea around for a great many days like a methodical tennis match in slow motion.

It comes in waves; one day, it’s a non-issue, the next, it’s overwhelming. Yet with all of that thinking about it, often those with suicidal thoughts are AFRAID to talk about them with anyone due to the same stupid remarks posted here. They may be afraid to see a psychiatrist or therapist due to how "the public" will slate them, that "it will go down on their permanent record!” and they rationalize revealing such thoughts could lead to great losses; career, kids, financial well-being, loved ones, and yes, gun ownership. Without the ability to talk about it, obsessing on those thoughts eventually leads to visualization of the action; how you might do it, when, etc., and the visualization takes over reality. Suicide becomes a simple end to a haunting perplexity of someone who has been doing nothing but trying to stave it off, sometimes for months on end.

And since they can't get out from under it, that imminent outcome gets easier to see, and they dwell on it. Visualization is a powerful force; top athletes use it top improve their swing in golf or baseball, or to jump higher in track or gymnastics. And when a person can't get the visualization out of their head, eventually, it seems like the right thing to do. Yet, instead of being able to talk to somebody out of fear, they simply go get their gun to give into the visualization.

As from what I am seeing, the article is merely stating some numbers from CDC which are none too good. I don't even get the impression it is trying to argue that guns are bad, but just show a known fact - humans are suicidal, like no other animal on earth, and we are also smart enough to develop ways to do it efficiently. How strange that our big advanced brains allow us a place for thinking up the possibility, while also thinking up grand inventions for carrying it out.

I DON'T think guns should be banned for ANY number of suicides, as suicidal statistics should not be used to alienate me from my freedoms; the two are unrelated. I am NOT blaming the existence of guns as contributing to the number of suicides annually. However, those are the numbers. You may not like the numbers, and not like those groups who may use them unjustly to ban guns (neither do I), but I would suggest people look a bit closer at some meaning in them. Don't be so quick to discount this article, or those that may be suffering from such thoughts. Doing so may even cultivate another statistic to be utilized by more articles such as this one.

.

[bohoki]

"The official report is that he fell down an elevator shaft... onto some bullets"


of course i find it hard to believe that a person that owns a gun could be depressed ,i mean heck you got a gun ,how can you frown with a gun in your hand

[mikehaas]

My Life-Death Clock (http://ammoguide.com/?article=lifeclock0707) may prove enlightening.