PDA

View Full Version : Glock 19 or 23? Comp or not???


C_1
06-25-2008, 7:50 PM
Narrowed my first gun choice to a compact Glock 19 (9mm) or 23 (40sw).

Really like the idea of switching from a compensated/ported barrel, to a non-ported barrel, or vice versa.

So I was thinking a G19/23 with an aftermarket extended ported barrel. Or a G19c/23c with an aftermarket replacement barrel.

Another option for the G23 (40sw) are 9mm conversion barrels.

So I'm thinkin':

1. G19 (9mm)
A. extended ported barrel

2. G23 (40sw)
A. extended ported barrel
B. 9mm conv. extended ported barrel

3. G19C (9mm)
A. replacement barrel

4. G23C (40sw)
A. replacement barrel
B. 9mm conv. barrel

What do you guys think? Inputs, thoughts, recommendations, etc, etc..

I live in California and the gun laws are more strict here. Is replacing the barrel, because of serial number matching issues, legal?

Thanks for any help..

OCArmory
06-25-2008, 7:56 PM
Shouldn't be any problem replacing the barrel as long as it is not threaded. I have a 19C and it shoots great.Some people complain about shooting it at night but I have shoot plenty of night stages with it and no problem. I would go with the 19c and a plain barrel if you really want one.
Mike

What Just Happened?
06-25-2008, 8:12 PM
Pretty much all of us are living in CA, so don't worry about that. We know the pain and hassle.

There's no problem with getting a new barrel. I've heard that the higher the load and pressure of the cartridge, the better a compensator is.

But I guess the main question is, 'what are the intended purposes of the handgun?'

aca72
06-25-2008, 8:16 PM
My vote: plain jane stock GLOCK 19 and use the excess budget for ammo.

The SoCal Gunner
06-25-2008, 8:17 PM
I'd got with 23 or 23C with conversion barrel down the line.

What Just Happened?
06-25-2008, 8:21 PM
I'd got with 23 or 23C with conversion barrel down the line.

That is true. You can purchase a 23 and convert it to function with 9mm ammo.

daemonite
06-25-2008, 8:23 PM
Compensators on a 9mm are wasted considering how soft Glocks shoot anyway.

Just get a regular 23!

SFFRONTMAN
06-25-2008, 8:26 PM
Get the 23, since the option to convert to 9mm is always there.

Matt640h
06-25-2008, 8:30 PM
My vote = Option #1

Then shoot it a bunch before you decide if you need a comp.

My first gun was a G19, very nice gun, thousands of rounds down the tube, still have it. Later I bought a G20c and then a standard barrel (KKM non comp'd). I put the KKM barrel in the G20c and the stocker has not been shot since. Not a huge difference between the G20c and the G20c with the KKM.

ghost
06-25-2008, 8:31 PM
why would you compensate a 9mm?maybe if you were shooting really hot loads for competition,but for factory loaded ammo:confused:
too each their own i guess,if thats what you want buy it;)

hkfooey
06-25-2008, 8:52 PM
Get the 23, since the option to convert to 9mm is always there.

+1 on the G23 - you can always change the barrel to shot 9 mm.

LAK Supply
06-25-2008, 9:04 PM
I would go with the G19 (although I don't personally own one). The .40 is a great load that's snappy in smaller guns and can't be used to it's true potential in the short barrel. 9mm is cheap(er) and with the current crop of 9mm +p you can get into 357 mag PP factory load range. The 9mm is nicer to shoot as well.... my G26 shoots a lot better than the G27.


Edit: Don't go for the comp or porting.... reduces recoil a bit, but makes the thing louder and bad for out of position firing in a bad spot. It will also screw your vision under low-light conditions.

Dark Water
06-25-2008, 9:06 PM
I recommend the 23. Get a .40 you will be glad you did.

jazman
06-25-2008, 9:29 PM
My vote: plain jane stock GLOCK 19 and use the excess budget for ammo.

Totally agree, I think you are over thinking this. Just buy one and shoot it.

lehn20
06-25-2008, 9:34 PM
Glock 19 is probably the best overall handgun in the world. Ergonomics might be a little off to people with smaller hands though.

WokMaster1
06-25-2008, 9:38 PM
just get one of each. You'll eventually end up with both anyway so just plan for it.:D

hi_desert
06-25-2008, 9:39 PM
Get em both, and top it off with the 17, then you'll have the three most popular Glocks. No regrets here.

ZombieKiller
06-25-2008, 10:06 PM
Get the 19 and rock it stock ........ Save the extra cash meant for the other barrel and put it towards the .40 cal you will eventually get.
TRUST ME......There will be a next- and much sooner than you think.

C_1
06-25-2008, 10:39 PM
Well, its my first handgun, and its going to be used primarily for home and self defense. I also plan on putting in a good amount of practice time at the range and a CCW permit later on.

So switchin out the barrel is completely legal in California just as long as its not threaded?

I shot both the Glock 19 and 23. The 40s&w snaps a little more but its not too bad. The compensated Glock 23c would proabably reduce the recoil a little bit or enough to feel like a G19. The ranges around here does not have compensated Glocks for rent.

I want all of them but sadly can't afford it. I do plan on getting a 1911 style pistol later but a Glock first.

Still stuck..

1. G19 (9mm)
A. extended ported barrel

2. G23 (40sw)
A. extended ported barrel
B. 9mm conv. extended ported barrel

3. G19C (9mm)
A. replacement barrel

4. G23C (40sw)
A. replacement barrel
B. 9mm conv. barrel

1lostinspace
06-25-2008, 10:48 PM
Narrowed my first gun choice to a compact Glock 19 (9mm) or 23 (40sw).

Really like the idea of switching from a compensated/ported barrel, to a non-ported barrel, or vice versa.

So I was thinking a G19/23 with an aftermarket extended ported barrel. Or a G19c/23c with an aftermarket replacement barrel.

Another option for the G23 (40sw) are 9mm conversion barrels.

So I'm thinkin':

1. G19 (9mm)
A. extended ported barrel

2. G23 (40sw)
A. extended ported barrel
B. 9mm conv. extended ported barrel

3. G19C (9mm)
A. replacement barrel

4. G23C (40sw)
A. replacement barrel
B. 9mm conv. barrel

What do you guys think? Inputs, thoughts, recommendations, etc, etc..

I live in California and the gun laws are more strict here. Is replacing the barrel, because of serial number matching issues, legal?

Thanks for any help..

Shoot it under low light conditions and see what happens?
Some have reported flash loosing the target and a dirty front sight

dichter
06-25-2008, 10:48 PM
G19 is a no brainer, as I have a second one (OD green hoping) on order at Bullseye... The enthusiast will no doubt try to convince you on .40 though. ;)

Personally, I don't feel comfatable with any conversion kit... But that's just me. I rock stock as well.

1lostinspace
06-25-2008, 10:50 PM
Winchester ranger +P+ ammo is almost as powerful as a 40 cal
Personally prefer RBCD 60gr I prefer frag over penetration

C_1
06-25-2008, 11:04 PM
Yeah. The G19 is a no brainer, and with hot ammo, it could be as powerful as a 40sw. And for self defense, frag over penetration is probably a good idea in an urban environment.

But with the G23, there's always the option of a 9mm conversion barrel.

And with the compensated G19c and G23c, the barrel can be replaced with a non ported one. Versitilaty..

Maybe prices could help my decision. Locally, Glocks go for $600-700 new and $450-600 used. There are no used Glocks around here right now and I rather buy it new. Where can I find a good deal on a Glock 19, 19c, 23, or 23c?

daemonite
06-25-2008, 11:13 PM
Most Glock 19's are going for 500-550 new, 600 for one with night sights.

Personally, I'd go with a Glock 19 since for self defense the best thing you can do is practice and 9mm is a little bit cheaper then .40

Cor-Bob JHP is excellent if you are afraid of over penetration. They rapidly expand and fragment yet the fragments penetrate deeply enough according to gel testing. Also really good expansion yet adequate penetration without fear of over penetration is the Federal 9BPLE +P+ very proven round.

I personally use Federal HST since I like the newest and greatest, but my other two 9mms. One is loaded with Cor-Bon JHP and one with Speer Gold Dot.


As for new vs used...they are Glocks, you can drop em out of a plane and it'll shoot the same. They take abuse well

C_1
06-25-2008, 11:33 PM
The local gun shops here super tax. They gotta make their money and stay open some how. I'm most likely going to order online and have a local dealer do the FFL thing.

A 9mm is adequate with the right ammo. Heard good things about Federal Hydra Shok 147 and 115 JHP; Hornady XTP; CorBon 115 DPX +P; Speer Gold Dot 124/147/124+p; Remington Golden Sabre 124/147/124+p; and Winchester Ranger 147/127+p+.

Any suggestions and/or personal experience with any 9mm ammo?

NotSoFast
06-25-2008, 11:40 PM
Narrowed my first gun choice to a compact Glock 19 (9mm) or 23 (40sw).

Really like the idea of switching from a compensated/ported barrel, to a non-ported barrel, or vice versa.

So I was thinking a G19/23 with an aftermarket extended ported barrel. Or a G19c/23c with an aftermarket replacement barrel.

Another option for the G23 (40sw) are 9mm conversion barrels.

So I'm thinkin':

1. G19 (9mm)
A. extended ported barrel

2. G23 (40sw)
A. extended ported barrel
B. 9mm conv. extended ported barrel

3. G19C (9mm)
A. replacement barrel

4. G23C (40sw)
A. replacement barrel
B. 9mm conv. barrel

What do you guys think? Inputs, thoughts, recommendations, etc, etc..

I live in California and the gun laws are more strict here. Is replacing the barrel, because of serial number matching issues, legal?

Thanks for any help..

From what I understand the frame is the registered part. You can change barrels, even the entire slide all day long and it doesn't matter as long as you're frame is registered.

If you really want both, get the G23 in whatever configuration you choose , then buy the 9mm conversion barrel. The 9mm frame, from what I understand is not built to withstand the .40.

Finally, go ask on Glocktalk.com for Glock specific questions. They have lots of experience on this. :)

Sumo99
06-26-2008, 9:13 AM
Well, its my first handgun, and its going to be used primarily for home and self defense.

Well if it's for home defense I think most would say to stay away from a ported barrel. Not only do you have to worry about the flash effecting your night vision, but also if you need to shoot from an awkward position, say from the hip. You could potentially get a nice blast of hot gas in the face.

SevenFifty
06-26-2008, 9:21 AM
They are both good choices.
The 23 is more versatile...for a little over $200 you can get conversion barrels/mags and shoot 357sig and 9mm. You can also shoot lead through conversions.

What Just Happened?
06-26-2008, 9:24 AM
Do you need to get a new slide and internals if you start with a 23 and want to shoot 9mm?

daemonite
06-26-2008, 1:08 PM
for maximum reliability, the extractor, barrel and magazines should be swapped out.

as for bullets, any major name brand JHP will do the trick. I still dont like the hydrashoks though. Oddly enough I'd go with winchester USA JHP over the Hydrashoks due to the cost vs effectiveness.

HST is currently king but followed closely by Rangers, Gold Dots, etc

What Just Happened?
06-26-2008, 1:35 PM
for maximum reliability, the extractor, barrel and magazines should be swapped out.

Yeah, the extractor was what I was wondering about. I don't own a glock, so how difficult is it to swap out extractors?

C_1
06-26-2008, 5:42 PM
The G19 is perfectly fine but the G23 does give caliber options..

I was thinking a G23c, even though the frame is compensated, the barrel can be replaced with a non-ported one. Then theres the option of 9mm or 357sig conversion barrels..

And the extractor would have to be swapped out for each different barrel/caliber?

LAK Supply
06-26-2008, 5:46 PM
If we're talking versatility now and not just your original requirements..... 10MM ALL THE WAY! It doesn't get more versatile than the 10; none of the rounds being discussed here will touch it, and with a barrel swap you can shoot .40, 357 SIG, and 9x25.

Considered a G29?

C_1
06-26-2008, 6:21 PM
10mm is probably more than I need/want. The subcompact Glocks seems a lil big/blocky, for a subcompact, but the compacts are perfect. Glock grips a lil akward for me but I like the balance and feel. Subcompacts dont shoot as well as compacts, and compacts dont shoot as well as full size Glocks. The compact is a perfect compromise. Probably the G26 is more fitted but I really like the G19 and G23.

Termagant
06-26-2008, 6:43 PM
Personally, I'd go with a Glock 19 since for self defense the best thing you can do is practice and 9mm is a little bit cheaper then .40

That precise issue- affordability of practice- was the primary factor that decided me on the Glock 19, and it seems like a good choice so far--I haven't stopped grinning in the two weeks since I brought it home!
It makes me ver', ver' happy! (thanks again, Nemo!):)

C_1
06-26-2008, 6:57 PM
Can't go wrong with a 9mm Glock. I have heard Glock have plans to make a short frame version of the G19 sometime in 2009. A G19SF would fit my hand better..

LAK Supply
06-26-2008, 8:25 PM
10mm is probably more than I need/want. The subcompact Glocks seems a lil big/blocky, for a subcompact, but the compacts are perfect. Glock grips a lil akward for me but I like the balance and feel. Subcompacts dont shoot as well as compacts, and compacts dont shoot as well as full size Glocks. The compact is a perfect compromise. Probably the G26 is more fitted but I really like the G19 and G23.

The 29 shoots very well with a pinky extension. There's actually a little more to hold on to than the other subs.

Gryff
06-26-2008, 10:11 PM
Get a regular 23. If you possess testicles, then you can EASILY control the recoil on the gun. My G23 isn't necessarily fun for putting a full box of 180gr. Federal HST rounds downrange, but it isn't brutal either.

As for compensators, I think the only place they belong is on hunting handguns and IPSC raceguns. The last thing you need in a night-time fight is a crapload of gas and flash passing directly up through your line of sight.

daemonite
06-27-2008, 10:05 AM
Glocks are ridiculously easy to work with, you can change any part in the Glock with just an armorers manual and less then 15 minutes of time.

As for recoil, my 105lb girlfriend has shot everything from 9mm to .44 magnum. If she can handle it without having testicles...so can you.

NVR SRNDR
06-27-2008, 11:02 AM
If it is mainly for home defense have you considered the full size 17?

loosewreck
06-27-2008, 11:29 AM
If it is mainly for home defense have you considered the full size 17?

+1 on full size. Less recoil, no need for comp, more fun to shoot for longer periods. You could even consider the G22.

(rhetorical) Why do new gun owners almost always want to start with a compact or sub compact pistol?

Don't over think the matter, pistols multiply like rabbits.:p If you're really into Glocks, one day soon you'll find your self owning at least 3.

Best advice I could give you is be patient and buy used, deals will come around sooner than you'll be able to afford. :D

savs2k
06-27-2008, 12:05 PM
For a first gun get a 19. I was in the same situation when I bought my first gun. I was debating on the 19 23 or the 21. So heres what I came up with that made me get a g19. Why get a 19... its overall a damn great gun bang for buck, Its reliable and i shoot it decently. 9mm rounds are almost half the price fo the .40. The easy answer to why get get a 23 is that it's a g19 with options to have a 9mm or 357. But its your first gun not your last! If you got the 23 you would get the 9mm conversion swap from .40 to 9mm which is cool and all but you wont be use to the caliber your shooting with. If you were to get the 19 and shoot it until you shoot your best with it, at this point JUST BUY ANOTHER GUN. Why start your collection at 1 gun then 2 barrels when you can start it off 1 gun then another. I started with a g19 which if I ever need a gun I will grab for. built an ar just bought a 1911 and shotty. next I will be going with a g21 then a g23. So pretty much save your money on the conversions. If you like the caliber your gonna end up with the gun eventually.

ar15barrels
06-27-2008, 12:33 PM
Shoot it under low light conditions and see what happens?
Some have reported flash loosing the target and a dirty front sight

Absolutely true, but what percentage of people here do you think have actually shot enough at night to know all the nuances involved?

I shoot a few night matches a year and still learn a new thing here or there.
Comps bad.
Smokey cast bullet loads bad.
Gun-mounted flashlight good.
Gun-mounted flashlight with laser better.

uscbigdawg
06-27-2008, 12:49 PM
I carry a G19C about every other day (G22 or G34 are my "normal" carry guns). A lot of people freak out over flash. First, if you try different ammo and learn that not all ammo is the same and as such different powders don't flash near as much you don't have to worry about that. Too, in that EXTREMELY RARE situation when you need to shoot someone, the last thing you're thinking about is how loud the gun is and even in a closed space you aren't hearing a thing.

So what about the "rock draw" close in shots? Well, I defer to the above again that you won't feel a thing in that moment. After 2 deployments and I don't know how many raids in small builds with M-4's, SAW's, shotguns, shape charges, et. al. going off I can tell you my hearing is perfect and in those moments your adrenaline is CRANKIN'. Hunters know what I'm talking about. How many wear plugs while hunting? Duck hunters maybe. Four legged hunters, generally no.

Rich

Matt P
06-27-2008, 1:57 PM
Interesting discussion here.
My attitude about porting is that the real benefit of it is enjoyed in faster recovery, less muzzle flip in a rapid fire situation. You dont normally feel a difference in slow fire with Glocks in the C model range.
Front Sight Magazine Vol 25, No 3 May/June 08 issue had an excellent article about a writer trying a number of differnt add on comps, and his testing.. Good read. The Lone Wolf comps which stick out the muzzle were also tested for accuracy and recoil.... Anyways,
I completely agree with the attitude that in a gun fight where lives are in the balance, it may be more point shooting then anything else at the beginning. In what may appear to be the most common situation, what do I want? A handgun that affords me the easiest means to recover from muzzle flip, and light enough recoil to insure the highest standard of accuracy I am capable of. After all, I am sure we can all agree its accuracy along with proper shot placement which stops a threat.
Why wouldnt you buy a firearm that allows you to do that with the greatest of ease?
Im with at least USCbigdawg that I believe that firearm in the Glock series with concealment in mind is the 19C and would be best suited.
When your life or someone elses is on the line, you wont be seeing the flash from the ports, hopefully you will be concentrating on proper sight alignment, sight picture with a smooth press of the trigger... The flash happens after you do all that is required to be accurate.

All the above just my opinion..... Have a great weekend guys, good thread....Matt

C_1
06-28-2008, 1:29 PM
Haha.. No balls because of a 9mm instead of a 40sw cal? Thats a weird requirement/standard. Funny funny..

I never said that I couldn't handle a G23. Its only a 40 cal, and the bullet is just a lil bit bigger, and the recoil is snappier, but the 9mm can do about the same damage with hot loads.. Plus ammo is a lil cheaper.

I've shot four-fives and 44 mags before and its not a problem. But I feel that I am more accurate, and handle a 9 better, in situations where bullet placement and follow up shots are crucial.

The full size Glock 17 is classic, and shoots better, but I plan on getting a CCW permit, so I want this gun to be a lil more concealable. I know its not going to be my only gun or Glock. I might end up getting all 3 different sizes and in different calibers, but for now, just one.

I also want a 1911 style pistol and will probably get a Kimber, full or compact, stainless steel, .45acp of course. Then an AK47, AR15, Saiga, SU16CA, 10/22 or something. I want it all.. but I need to start off somewhere. A Glock 19 or 23 would be nice..

Greg-Dawg
06-29-2008, 6:59 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/Gregdog/Pin%20Ups/NewG23001.jpg

If you're struggling with funds, then get a better job. Bigger bore will mean business and recoil is great.

TonyKat
06-29-2008, 8:10 AM
2. G23 (40sw)

Matt P
06-29-2008, 12:46 PM
I would enjoy understanding why some members here think that a 180 grain 40 S&W offers way more performance over say a 147 grain 9mm?
For that 40 or so more grain weight difference comes substantial more recoil, or muzzle flip. This is why .40 and .45 make major in IPSC, and why 9mm is considered a minor cartridge. Not that all should use this as a standard to judge a cartridge by. I just state it as it lends some credibility to 9mm being lighter recoiling.

I certainly understand many of you handle .40 fine.

Just why do you think .40 is a better cartridge, or the Glock 23 better?

If accuracy, and the ability to get many accurate well placed shots stop a threat, why not use 9mm?

The FBI standard, which came after the Miami shootout, really lent to the popularity of .40. So many LE agencies then defined 40 as the only cartridge for them.

Through the advances in modern techniques of bullet design and manufacture, you now see 9mm in its various self defense types, much more effective. There no longer exists such a huge difference in reliable performance.

I carry a 5.7. Why? magnificent round capacity, along with extreme light recoil. I like bullets that move very fast, along with light jackets designed to dump all their energy in contact with soft tissue. It will always be my opinion accuracy and quick well placed shots stops a threat. The FN allows me to do so with the greatest of ease.

So many seem to choose caliber based on, "Well, thats what the Police carry" attitude.

Keep in mind, LE Agencies take a wide range of things in consideration when choosing a cartridge. Most, seem to only use the FBI findings as the status quo.

Not trying to start a flame war, just trying to understand why you think 40 is better then 9mm......Matt

uscbigdawg
06-30-2008, 7:56 AM
I carry a 9 instead of a 40 'cause well...I know how to shoot.

Rich