Warning to old fashioned Prince-50 users

[hoffmang]

All,

A couple of folks recently have had their rifles incorrectly seized at one BLM area in Kern County. The right people and The Calguns Foundation are on it and expect a normal outcome.

However, it appears through the grapevine that people are not correctly configuring their old fashioned prince-50 magazine locked ARs.

Do not transport an Off List AR with a classic prince-50 and no magazine in the well. Though it is probably quite technically legal in that configuration, all it does is confuse law enforcement and DAs. If you want to transport the weapon more safely, please pull both pins and separate the lower and upper. Also note that the only way one can loosen the allen screw to insert or remove the magazine is when the upper is not connected. Otherwise you are temporarily manufacturing an assault weapon!

Rifles stored with the allen screw tight and a magazine out are legal as they don't have the capacity to accept a detachable magazine, but it is just too difficult to explain that nuance in a law enforcement contact. The other option is to paint one of these (http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16316) yellow or orange and use that as a safety magazine insert.

Finally - if you really want to be able to switch magazines, the classic prince-50 is not right for you. Please upgrade to a Bullet Button or B-15...

-Gene

[oaklander]

I'm the Gene troll today!

:)

ALSO - if you have a Bullet Button - please transport and store your rifle with the magazine IN the mag well.

Again, it is easier to explain to LEO's that your magazine is fixed when there is a magazine IN the mag well.

[saigon1965]

Great heads up Gene. Hope all will apply this when out and about.

[5150Marcelo]

I'm the Gene troll today!

:)

ALSO - if you have a Bullet Button - please transport and store your rifle with the magazine IN the mag well.

Again, it is easier to explain to LEO's that your magazine is fixed when there is a magazine IN the mag well.

EXACTLY what I was thinking while reading this!

[H2H]

thanks

[dfletcher]

I certainly don't question the above info or the advise on how to remedy the situation. I do think that most police officers associate a magazine attached to a gun as a sign it is loaded and can perceive it as a threat, or at least more so than a gun without a magazine attached. Any advice on how to present the rifle to an inquiring LE?

I think people who use the BB tend to leave the mag in also on the way to & from the range.

[DB2]

I had to straighten out a friend of mine on this. He was telling me that it was ok to back the screw out to change a mag in Ca. I told him no way, he is wrong and explained. He said that the riflegear web site said it was ok. Now the Riflegear web site does not say it is ok, but it is confusing. I could see how he could get confused. He was not a Calguns member at the time.

Check it out and see for your self......................

http://www.riflegear.com/p-57-prince50-mag-lock-kit.aspx
Like I said it's not wrong, but I bet ALOT of people are confused. Not just by this one but by others also.

[383green]

I transport my Bullet Button OLL rifles with the magazine in place and one of these chamber safety flags (http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product.php?productid=16327&cat=0&page=1) in the chamber:

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/product_image.php?imageid=181

So far, I have not been yelled at by range safety officers when I leave the magazine in place and insert the chamber safety flag during range breaks.

I have never used a Prince 50 lock, but it seems to me that these safety flags should work just fine for magazine-in transport of Prince 50 OLL rifles, or any of the various "replace button and spring with a locknut" modifications.

A side benefit of this particular safety flag is that the small end works well for depressing the bullet button latch.

[bwiese]

I think some folks may be confusing P50 catch with BB catch, and they're different animals.

[fairfaxjim]

I always carry my Prince50 equipped OLL's detached and in separate cases from an upper, with a short style (flush with bottom of mag well) 10 round magazine locked in place. I also have attached the below P-Touch label to the bottom of each magazine.
http://www.saltzgaber.com/New_Folder/Mag_Warning_600X400.jpg

I also carry one of the following "Not an AW" rifle case flyers in each case.

http://www.saltzgaber.com/New_Folder/ThisisNOTanassaultweapon2-1.jpg

http://www.saltzgaber.com/New_Folder/ThisisNOTanassaultweapon-1.jpg

Word and .pdf copies of these are avaiable for download at:
Fairfax Jim's Not an AW rifle case flyers (http://www.saltzgaber.com/reality_check.htm)

[yellowfin]

That flyer made me vomit up my breakfast.

[domokun]

This thread should be stickied. It's good advice and shouldn't get buried.

[fairfaxjim]

That flyer made me vomit up my breakfast.

And that advances our knowledge how?

Thanks for sharing.

[Sam .223]

the flier is a good idea but in my expierence LEOs usually don't want to read your papers or even see a sales reciept, they usually fiddle with the rifle and figure out that the mag isn't detatchable, you just need to hope you are dealing with someone that knows a little about the OLLs that are out there now.

[titus7]

Thanks Gene for the post. Seriously guys this is no joke. LE doesnt keep up on these laws and therefore we must. Save this thread just as a reminder.

Nate

[swhatb]

bump for sticky!