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Rugerman
06-21-2008, 10:14 PM
A FFL dealer can only sell handguns to people 21 or older correct? However, someone can buy a handgun from a private party if they are 18 or older and posses a HSC right?

Librarian
06-21-2008, 10:26 PM
No.

Illegal to sell handguns to < 21.

PC 12072 12072. (a) (1) No person, corporation, or firm shall knowingly
supply, deliver, sell, or give possession or control of a firearm to
any person within any of the classes prohibited by Section 12021 or
12021.1.
(2) No person, corporation, or dealer shall sell, supply, deliver,
or give possession or control of a firearm to any person whom he or
she has cause to believe to be within any of the classes prohibited
by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of
the Welfare and Institutions Code.
(3) (A) No person, corporation, or firm shall sell, loan, or
transfer a firearm to a minor, nor sell a handgun to an individual
under 21 years of age.

ke6guj
06-21-2008, 10:30 PM
and even if 12072 didn't apply, I think that you'd be prohibited during the PPT process. Since legally the handgun is transferred to the FFL and then the FFL transfers it to you after the 10 days. Per federal law, an FFL can't transfer a handgun to a <21 year old.

Librarian
06-21-2008, 10:44 PM
... but if the 18-year-old has an HSC, a parent or grandparent may GIVE a handgun to him/her.

It's just selling that's restricted.

Fantasma
06-22-2008, 12:24 AM
Dude tell your dad to buy them for you.. like me i already got me my CZ75/SA and my first gun was a Taurus .40....:D

Moonclip
06-22-2008, 2:03 PM
Yes an 18yo can have an HSC and be gifted a handgun by parent/grandparent but can he/she be sold ammo for it?

ar15barrels
06-22-2008, 2:06 PM
Dude tell your dad to buy them for you..

"Telling your dad" could be conspiracy to commit a crime (straw purchase).
Letting your dad know that you would really like a handgun
and that he could give you one before your 21st birthday,
when you are able to buy your own, is the way to go.

Fantasma
06-22-2008, 2:47 PM
"Telling your dad" could be conspiracy to commit a crime (straw purchase).
Letting your dad know that you would really like a handgun
and that he could give you one before your 21st birthday,
when you are able to buy your own, is the way to go.

So if the cops come by and ask my dad, he is gonna tell them my son made me buy it, he asked me to, he told me. No. My dad gave them to me. it's not a straw purchase anyhow. He is my father. LOL good one...

ar15barrels
06-22-2008, 6:19 PM
it's not a straw purchase anyhow. He is my father. LOL good one...

A straw purchase is a purchase made for someone who is not able to purchase it for themselves.
Why don't you just buy it yourself?

Bagger
06-22-2008, 6:39 PM
No sir 21 PPT at a FFL.

A FFL dealer can only sell handguns to people 21 or older correct? However, someone can buy a handgun from a private party if they are 18 or older and posses a HSC right?

Mickey D
06-23-2008, 7:57 AM
... but if the 18-year-old has an HSC, a parent or grandparent may GIVE a handgun to him/her.

It's just selling that's restricted.

What part of the PC code don't you understand?
It's also a federal law that states handguns can not be transfered to <21.

Librarian
06-23-2008, 8:13 AM
What part of the PC code don't you understand?
It's also a federal law that states handguns can not be transfered to <21.
Federal law enjoins sales/transfers from dealers, not other persons. California law extends the prohibition on sales from anyone, as I posted. But possession and ownership is NOT restricted to 21+.

Feel free to quote any law which you think supports your assertion.

goathead
06-23-2008, 8:16 AM
• Firearms obtained through intestate succession or by bequest, sales or transfers
between “immediate family” members. Immediate family means parent and child,
and grandparent and grandchild. (NOTE: Individuals who receive a concealable
firearm in this manner must obtain a Handgun Safety Certificate. The acquisition of a handgun
in this manner must be reported within 30 days to the Department of Justice on forms
provided by the Department of Justice.)
(Penal Code 12078(i)(1)(B), 12078(c)(2)(A).)

goathead
06-23-2008, 8:18 AM
2) The dealer licensing and reporting requirements do not apply to the loan of any firearm in the
following instances:
• Infrequent loans of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any
lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration. (Penal Code 12078(d).)
• Loans of a firearm for the purpose of shooting at targets on the premises of a target facility
if the firearm is kept within the premises of the target facility at all times.
(Penal Code 12078(h).)
• Loans of an unloaded firearm or a firearm loaded with blanks for use solely as a
prop for motion picture, television or other entertainment event. (Penal Code 12078(s).)
• Loans of a long gun to a licensed hunter for a period of time not to exceed the
hunting season for which the firearm is being used. (Penal Code 12078(q).)
• Loans to minors by a parent, legal guardian, or grandparent:
- Long guns may be loaned for an indefinite period.
- Handguns may be loaned for the purpose of engaging in a lawful activity, and the loan does not
exceed the period of time necessary to participate in the
activity.
• Loans to minors by other than a parent or legal guardian:
- Long guns may be loaned with the express permission of a parent or legal guardian if the
loan does not exceed 30 days.
- Handguns may be loaned with the express permission of a parent or legal guardian for not more
than 10 days. (Penal Code 12078(p).)
NOTE: A processing fee is assessed on all firearm reporting to the Department of Justice, such as
voluntary registrations and transfers through operation of law. (Penal Code 12076(e)(1).)
Handgun Safety Certificate
No handgun may be delivered by a firearms dealer unless the purchaser or transferee
presents to the dealer a Handgun Safety Certificate. Additionally, no firearms dealer may deliver a
handgun without first requiring the recipient to correctly and properly perform a safe handling
demonstration with that handgun for a Department of Justice certified instructor.
(Penal Code 12071(b)(8).)
Exceptions

JTROKS
06-23-2008, 8:51 AM
Yes an 18yo can have an HSC and be gifted a handgun by parent/grandparent but can he/she be sold ammo for it?

You can if you have a rifle in that caliber. I bought a brick of 22lr at Walmart last night and the clerk asked me if the ammo is for rifle or handgun. I answered both, he then told me that I have to be 18 if buying for rifle and 21 for handgun. I smiled and thanked him for thinking I was under 21.

leitung
06-23-2008, 10:43 AM
Okay,
An 18-20 year old may own a handgun. In other states, buying a handgun from a private party only requires that you be 18. You don't have to go through a dealer (i.e. South Carolina). In California, we are required to go through a dealer to do PP transfers, and a dealer cannot transfer a handgun to you under 21.
However, your dad, mom, grandma, grandpa, may give you one as a legitimate GIFT.
Federal law does not prohibit a purchace as a GIFT for an adult over 18. It prohibits you from giving you dad money and sending him to the gun store to buy you a handgun. As long as you didn't exchange money, your dad can buy you one as a gift.
Parents do this all the time for kids, they want to get thier kid a .22 pistol to learn how to shoot on, it's not illegal as long as the kid does not give them any money.

If your parents decided to give you a handgun as a GIFT, you will need to send back a form to the California DOJ, with a $19 check to put the title of the gun in your name.

Getting ammo for it is a whole other problem.. I don't know much about how that works...

That's how I got my Glock, my dad told me he was going to buy me one, and we were going to go to the gun shop and pick it out. He paid for it with his own money, and I have never given him any money for it. I hinted at wanting one as a christmas present this year. He later told me later that we would go get one early because of my upcoming job in armed security.
I don't get any Christmas presents this year.. That was it..
I didn't violate any law, because I didn't ask him to buy if for me, nor did I give him any money. It was a GIFT...

Some examples:

This is a Straw Purchace:
Hey Dad! I wan't a handgun, heres $500 bucks, go to the gun store and buy me one because I am not old enough yet. Dad: No problem...
BOOM.. Dad just broke a federal law..

Not a Straw Purchace:
Dad: Here ya go 18 year old son, Happy Birthday.. Opens it up to find new handgun... Not illegal because no money was exchanged.

ar15barrels
06-23-2008, 11:17 AM
This is a Straw Purchace:
Hey Dad! I wan't a handgun, heres $500 bucks, go to the gun store and buy me one because I am not old enough yet.
Dad: No problem...
BOOM.. Dad just broke a federal law..

Not a Straw Purchace:
Dad: Here ya go 18 year old son, Happy Birthday..
Opens it up to find new handgun...
Not illegal because no money was exchanged.

Very good examples.

thedrickel
06-23-2008, 11:56 AM
You could also bend your own AK flat or finish an 80% AR receiver, or any other kind of pistol frame/receiver.

Springfield45
06-23-2008, 1:43 PM
It seems stupid to me that at 18 years old you can join the military(and use automatic weopans), drive a car or 30,000 lb. truck, vote and do most anything else. But you can't Buy a pistol or alcohol because you are to irresponsible!

ar15barrels
06-23-2008, 2:01 PM
It seems stupid to me that at 18 years old you can join the military(and use automatic weopans), drive a car or 30,000 lb. truck, vote and do most anything else. But you can't Buy a pistol or alcohol because you are to irresponsible!

I agree.
We should raise the age to join the military(and use automatic weopans), drive a car or 30,000 lb. truck or vote to 21.

Shane916
06-23-2008, 2:13 PM
Some examples:

This is a Straw Purchace:
Hey Dad! I wan't a handgun, heres $500 bucks, go to the gun store and buy me one because I am not old enough yet. Dad: No problem...
BOOM.. Dad just broke a federal law..


Technically, if the recipient of the firearm is not prohibited (no restrictions, possessing an HSC, proper paperwork, and being of age) then a straw purchase did not take place.

ar15barrels
06-23-2008, 2:18 PM
Technically, if the recipient of the firearm is not prohibited (no restrictions, possessing an HSC, proper paperwork, and being of age) then a straw purchase did not take place.

Technically, Bill Clinton did not have sex with Monica Lewinsky.
Hillary was still not thrilled with the situation.

A straw purchase is when someone purchases a firearm on behalf of someone who could not purchase it themselves.
How do you propose that the 18yr old purchases the handgun himself?

This is all very black and white.
You can try to make it gray to suit your situation, but it's still very black and white to everyone else.

Moonclip
06-23-2008, 4:08 PM
You can if you have a rifle in that caliber. I bought a brick of 22lr at Walmart last night and the clerk asked me if the ammo is for rifle or handgun. I answered both, he then told me that I have to be 18 if buying for rifle and 21 for handgun. I smiled and thanked him for thinking I was under 21.

I think that the Firing Line in Huntington beach wont sell handgun ammo to an 18-20 yo even if they walk in with a pistol caliber carbine. Correct me if I'm wrong. Kind of strange Wal Mart will and they wont.

I like pistol calber carbines, I have combos with handguns in .40,.357mag,9x19(takes same mags),.44mag,9mm Largo,.30carbine. I used to have a .45acp Marlin camp carbine to go with my 1911 pattern handguns.

I have a .223 T/C contender to go with my SU16 also!

Rugerman
06-23-2008, 5:20 PM
After carefully reading all these replies, I understand now. Money cannot be exchanged for a purchase of a handgun.

I guess I'll give some helpful tips to my dad when I turn 18, like putting a catalog on his bed with bright red circles. :D

leitung
06-23-2008, 6:03 PM
After carefully reading all these replies, I understand now. Money cannot be exchanged for a purchase of a handgun.

I guess I'll give some helpful tips to my dad when I turn 18, like putting a catalog on his bed with bright red circles. :D

Being 18 is required first..

You have the point, you cannot give him any money... I think you know what you wan't for your 18th birthday....:D

fireblast713
06-23-2008, 9:15 PM
just buy a few long guns and save up money for when you hit 21... you'll soon have/want more handguns than you can afford. Long guns tend to be more effective than pistols as far as target shooting, hunting, home defense, etc goes. Pistols are really only useful for their portability, but you're not really going to be CCW'ing anyways.

StraightShooter
06-23-2008, 10:03 PM
I am 20 years old and I acquired a handgun from my dad through an IFT but unless you have been shooting for a while then long guns are the place to start. I own over 10 long guns and have been shooting and hunting since I was 5 years old. I have never had an accident ever but I know that it is easier to screw up with a handgun than a long gun. My advice is that if you are getting your first gun then get a long gun. If you do get a handgun then take a class because there are a lot of things you need to know to be absolutely safe. Good luck.


just buy a few long guns and save up money for when you hit 21... you'll soon have/want more handguns than you can afford. Long guns tend to be more effective than pistols as far as target shooting, hunting, home defense, etc goes. Pistols are really only useful for their portability, but you're not really going to be CCW'ing anyways.

Rugerman
06-23-2008, 10:43 PM
Just want to clarify with you guys:

I am experienced with many long guns. I own 3 (CZ452, Winchester SX3, Winchester Model 70)

Fantasma
06-23-2008, 11:29 PM
This thread is annoying.

Some people hating on the fact that you can own a gun at 18 because of a loophole. Then they have to get all Mr. Law on us. When they also found a way to get an Ar-15/Ak-47 in California legally trough a loophole. Payback for DOJ hating on them. Must be!

:rolleyes:

Whatever happens as long as i write on the intra family transfer paper, that it was a gift. Then its legal. If they ask my dad. He gifted it to me which is the truth. Who cares who paid it.

Gosh..

So Yes you can own a handgun at 18. Get an HSC, do a intra-family transfer, write your father gave it to you, gifted it to you. Your good to go..

Don't worry no one will ever ask you, who actually worked for the funds that paid the gun, and did he really gift it to you. Not a big deal as the people trying to defend themselves owning an OLL. All they will do is run your name or whatever and see that it actually is in your name and your good to go.

You won't have your gun taken away like an OLL (if you encounter a know it all cop) or be scared to go to a range if the range is not OLL friendly...

You have a legal gun in your name. Thats legal here in California. No one can tell me different.

Have fun, be safe!

ar15barrels
06-23-2008, 11:36 PM
This thread is annoying.

Whatever happens as long as i write on the intra family transfer paper, that it was a gift. Then its legal. If they ask my dad. He gifted it to me which is the truth. Who cares who paid it.

Obeying the law is annoying too, so just lie and don't worry about it.
Nobody will ever check.

:rolleyes:

Lacking morals makes it easier to disobey laws that inconvience you.

Fantasma
06-23-2008, 11:41 PM
so just lie and don't worry about it.
Nobody will ever check.


Great Advice. :rolleyes:

Lie? I have never.. I do worry. I read law and follow the rules.

I have not lied anywhere, i own my guns perfectly legal. You do not know my situation so do not ever comment on them...

Thank you..

If you have something to tell me personally PM me...

Fantasma
06-23-2008, 11:43 PM
Lacking morals makes it easier to disobey laws that inconvience you.

Honestly dude. Just PM me If you got a problem, i am not lacking morals. You do not know me so don't judge me.

Moonclip
06-26-2008, 2:19 PM
Anyone here 18-20 ever been turned down for purchase of pistol caliber ammo or like dual purpose ammo such as .22lr at a gunshop or range for use in a long gun?

And how vigilant can the shop owner be? After all, I own a handgun chambered in .223, a T/C contender. And others such as the Ruger blackhawk in .30carbine.