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View Full Version : 2010 Microstamping? No more handguns in CA?


Sobriquet
06-18-2008, 5:27 PM
My local dealer told me what sounds like a bedtime story mean parents tell their children to keep them from misbehaving.

He said that, effective 2010, all automatic handguns in California will be required to microstamp each casing they eject with info that can identify the gun and its owner. Since the technology doesn't exist, he said that no new automatic handguns will be available in California after that date and only private party transfers will be possible (or revolvers).

Is this true (which I can't imagine it is), or just something gun stores tell people in order to get them to buy now?

Rem1492
06-18-2008, 5:29 PM
standby for an overturn, as the company who owns the patent to make microstamping is in hands and invested by the same Democrats who pass the bills pushing it forward.

Severe conflict of interests. He is partially right.

ke6guj
06-18-2008, 5:34 PM
The law says that no new designs will be approved in CA after that date that don't microstamp, but that existing rostered designed are still sellable. SO, you should still be able to get a non-microstamper as long as the manufacturer keeps it on the roster.

And there is the patent issues that have to be worked out first as well.

FortCourageArmory
06-18-2008, 5:35 PM
Actually, as it stands right now, there is NO microstamping technology approved for use in CA. There is a lengthy list of requirements before any technology can be approved by the AG. So, for all intents and purposes, there is no microstamping.

Send Chicken Little back inside. The sky is NOT falling.....

bohoki
06-18-2008, 5:36 PM
yea and what is wrong with revolvers by then brass will be so valuable i feel they will become more popular especially with smith and wesson working on a 10 shot .32

shh ive said too much

RAD-CDPII
06-18-2008, 5:57 PM
My local dealer told me what sounds like a bedtime story mean parents tell their children to keep them from misbehaving.

He said that, effective 2010, all automatic handguns in California will be required to microstamp each casing they eject with info that can identify the gun and its owner. Since the technology doesn't exist, he said that no new automatic handguns will be available in California after that date and only private party transfers will be possible (or revolvers).

Is this true (which I can't imagine it is), or just something gun stores tell people in order to get them to buy now?

Where have you been?? I just did a search on microstamping and found 401 references.

workinwifdakids
06-18-2008, 6:02 PM
Jury nullification, should this come to pass. It's not just a right, it's our duty.

Kruzr
06-18-2008, 6:35 PM
standby for an overturn, as the company who owns the patent to make microstamping is in hands and invested by the same Democrats who pass the bills pushing it forward.

Severe conflict of interests. He is partially right.

Got any backup for that? Todd Lizotte, the inventor of microstamping and the guy who goes from state to state to try to sell it has given two donations to political campaigns that can be found on the net. One was to George Bush in 2004 and the other this year to John Stephens, a republican running for congress in New Hampshire.

Librarian
06-18-2008, 6:56 PM
Is this true (which I can't imagine it is), or just something gun stores tell people in order to get them to buy now?

Please see the sticky (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=81127) at the top of the forum.

SONYEXEC
06-19-2008, 12:19 AM
Well one silver lining in the microstamp saga, cops will now be looking for stolen guns (inadvertently) since Im sure most guns used in crimes are stolen. So here's the flow chart on how a gun crime investigation will start: (a) find & collect the casings at the crime scene (b) run the microstamp info through their crime computer (c) contact the last registered owner of the gun (d) owner tells cops "ya that was my gun, it was stolen on 6/18/2012 there's a report at XYZ PD (d) cops are back to square 1. HAHAHA

And these guys (politicians) are supposed to be smarter than criminals? Or do they think the criminals, as their first step to committing a gun crime, go down to the local gun store, pay $300+ for a gun they are going to throw away, go through the extensive ID/DROS process, pick up the gun after the 10 days, then go committ their crime LOL. I mean look how well the process works when a stolen car is used in a drive by (see flow chart above and replace casing/gun with car)

kmca
06-19-2008, 6:59 AM
I wonder what would happen if someone lost a stamped case? Wouldn't we report it to the police so we won't get in trouble? :devil2:

All Nav
06-19-2008, 7:34 AM
I wonder what would happen if someone lost a stamped case? Wouldn't we report it to the police so we won't get in trouble? :devil2:

Ha! I'd love it if shooters all over the state flooded their local LE offices with calls of "Gee, I had 200 rounds with me when I got to the range, but could only find 199 when I was done." When I was shooting .45ACP, I never left the range with as much brass as I showed up with; one or two casings just wouldn't be found, and I looked!

If this dumb law is actually enacted, you won't be able to find brass at the range. Every semi-auto shooter will have a brass catcher on there gun. :D

Gator Monroe
06-19-2008, 8:00 AM
Actually, as it stands right now, there is NO microstamping technology approved for use in CA. There is a lengthy list of requirements before any technology can be approved by the AG. So, for all intents and purposes, there is no microstamping.

Send Chicken Little back inside. The sky is NOT falling.....

Unless Gun Shops & Firearms related dealers become involved in politics on a daily basis (as true advocates of Republican and pro firearm politicians and their agendas) and yes this includes getting your wives , relitives, family friends, and yes customers to understand that they are missinformed and very wrong about being a Firearms enthusiast and a good Democrat (Even Liberal) and that voting and assisting Democratic policy and candidates is putting your livelyhood in danger and putting them into a unfriendly light and this gives you the right to try to alter their mindset anytime you wish (Politically ) when they enter your doors . Legal Private Firearms ownership has 10 years to defend itself (tops ,especially in California)

Danield
06-19-2008, 8:07 AM
My local dealer told me what sounds like a bedtime story mean parents tell their children to keep them from misbehaving.

He said that, effective 2010, all automatic handguns in California will be required to microstamp each casing they eject with info that can identify the gun and its owner. Since the technology doesn't exist, he said that no new automatic handguns will be available in California after that date and only private party transfers will be possible (or revolvers).

Is this true (which I can't imagine it is), or just something gun stores tell people in order to get them to buy now?

I didn't think automatic handguns were legal???;)

Gator Monroe
06-19-2008, 8:12 AM
I didn't think automatic handguns were legal???;)

And I dont think Gunshop Owners will have the Guts to become ardantly politically active (Especially at their shops) (Unless they are Liberal Democrat Obama supporters (Then they will have Banners out front and Put Traveling Obama staffers in their spare bedroom at home even )

domokun
06-19-2008, 10:40 AM
The microstamping issue brings two issues to my mind if they get it all worked out and going. I have broken them down below:

1. What is going to stop people from picking up other people's microstampped brass picked up at the range and littering it at a crime scene that involved a pistol of the same caliber? Who are the police going to charge with the crime if the criminals start using brass catchers to catch their brass and then litter the scene with said picked up brass from the range in the quantity equal the number of shots they fired?

2. If people reload used brass purchased from the free market, what are the police going to do when they find multiple microstamps on the brass casings at a crime scene?

Ironchef
06-19-2008, 11:00 AM
The microstamping issue brings two issues to my mind if they get it all worked out and going. I have broken them down below:

1. What is going to stop people from picking up other people's microstampped brass picked up at the range and littering it at a crime scene that involved a pistol of the same caliber? Who are the police going to charge with the crime if the criminals start using brass catchers to catch their brass and then litter the scene with said picked up brass from the range in the quantity equal the number of shots they fired?

2. If people reload used brass purchased from the free market, what are the police going to do when they find multiple microstamps on the brass casings at a crime scene?

And that's all assuming that there's a valid microstamping technology that may be developed that will actually put a readable, complete stamp on EVERY casing from cartridge #1 to cartridge #10,000. I know if I had to have a new gun purchase with a microstamp, i'll just find a way to dull it down so that it's unreadable so my casing aren't used against me fraudulently..oh wait, that's what criminals will do when they lawfully purchase a gun..better not do what they do i guess.. lol

domokun
06-19-2008, 11:05 AM
If we pay attention to the highlighted text from the Microstamping law, we can see there are already some weaknesses in the way it was written. Please see the excerpt from AB1471 below:

Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it
is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior
surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are
transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is
fired, provided that the Department of Justice certifies that the
technology used to create the imprint is available to more than one
manufacturer unencumbered by any patent restrictions. The Attorney
General may also approve a method of equal or greater reliability and
effectiveness in identifying the specific serial number of a firearm
from spent cartridge casings discharged by that firearm than that
which is set forth in this paragraph, to be thereafter required as
otherwise set forth by this paragraph where the Attorney General
certifies that this new method is also unencumbered by any patent
restrictions. Approval by the Attorney General shall include notice
of that fact via regulations adopted by the Attorney General for
purposes of implementing that method for purposes of this paragraph.
The microscopic array of characters required by this section
shall not be considered the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's
number, or other mark of identification, including any distinguishing
number or mark assigned by the Department of Justice, within the
meaning of Sections 12090 and 12094.

So in the event that none of the manufacturers agree to use the same technology nor do they agree to share royalty free the technologies they have to use for microstamping, we aren't going to have any new approved handguns added to the roster if the old ones are taken off the roster. Additionally, this is a perfect setup for a patent troll to make a killing in CA just by filing a lawsuit in Marshall, Texas making claim that the certified technology used to microstamp the brass casings is covered by a patent that the troll owns.

It's just going to be one big ugly mess until everything pans out.

hitmeallday900
06-19-2008, 4:30 PM
I guess when i shoot my glock at the range i need to only stick the barrel out of a LUCKYS bag to keep my Brass

Miltiades
06-19-2008, 4:51 PM
Since this law doesn't apply to revolvers, I guess they will become more common in California in the future.

sb_pete
06-19-2008, 5:07 PM
2. If people reload used brass purchased from the free market, what are the police going to do when they find multiple microstamps on the brass casings at a crime scene?

Maybe I'm wrong, but as I understand it the stamp would be on the striker and would impact the primer. Primer being changed with every reload, there would only be one imprint.

That said, I think this whole idea is some serious ring around the rosie bulls]!t. This might be useful in helping to catch "crimes of passion" committed with legally owned guns, but those aren't exactly hard to solve anyway. Waste of money, waste of time, waste of friggin law.

-Pete

Librarian
06-19-2008, 5:41 PM
Regrettably, this is :beatdeadhorse5:

All the things correctly pointed out as shortcomings were clearly conveyed to the legislature before each and every stage in the committee and house process.

Brooke
06-19-2008, 6:01 PM
I don't think this will stop handgun sales in CA. I see the "provided that" language as nullifying the entire law until the technology exists in sufficiently patant-free form.

Codelphious
06-19-2008, 7:34 PM
Baby steps my friends. The legislature is now one step closer to enacting the inevitable "Guns of the Patriots" law that will require all citizens be injected with nanomachines controlled by a central AI system that permits firearms to be operated only by people given the authority to do so -- so called "ID tagging."

I know this is happening because I just saw it in Metal Gear Solid 4. ;)

bwiese
06-19-2008, 7:35 PM
Since this law doesn't apply to revolvers, I guess they will become more common in California in the future.

It also doesn't apply to 12133PC-defined single-shot pistols ;)

domokun
06-19-2008, 10:51 PM
Since this law doesn't apply to revolvers, I guess they will become more common in California in the future.

It also doesn't apply to 12133PC-defined single-shot pistols ;)

That's exactly what they want us to do! If everyone used a revolver or single-shot pistol, then they wouldn't need to ban the sale of semi-automatic pistols! :sarcasm:

CrippledPidgeon
06-20-2008, 7:39 AM
Baby steps my friends. The legislature is now one step closer to enacting the inevitable "Guns of the Patriots" law that will require all citizens be injected with nanomachines controlled by a central AI system that permits firearms to be operated only by people given the authority to do so -- so called "ID tagging."

I know this is happening because I just saw it in Metal Gear Solid 4. ;)

Damn. where's that syringe when I need it?

Snake. Snake? SNAAAAAKE!!!!

big50_1
06-20-2008, 7:49 AM
A side issue is if one of your stolen gun's microstamped cases is found at a crime scene and there is a law to report theft of the gun in three days, if it's day four, are you totally SOL?

ricknadine1111
06-20-2008, 7:56 AM
:beatdeadhorse5:

NotSoFast
06-20-2008, 11:49 AM
I will. Mine is in the mail :D

NotSoFast
06-20-2008, 11:53 AM
The microstamping issue brings two issues to my mind if they get it all worked out and going. I have broken them down below:

2. If people reload used brass purchased from the free market, what are the police going to do when they find multiple microstamps on the brass casings at a crime scene?

I had that same thought. And what about the reloader that uses his brass 10+ times. With all the overstamps the microstamps will be pretty much impossible to read I would think.

But then, these politicians have this all thought out and they know better than we do so who are we to question. ;)

bwiese
06-20-2008, 11:56 AM
Please stop beating dead horses.

Just because the law passed doesn't mean it'll happen. It'll be easy to stop.

NotSoFast
06-20-2008, 11:58 AM
That's exactly what they want us to do! If everyone used a revolver or single-shot pistol, then they wouldn't need to ban the sale of semi-automatic pistols! :sarcasm:Wonder what the politicians will come up with when the BGs start using revolvers too. :confused:

X-NewYawker
06-20-2008, 1:16 PM
Please stop beating dead horses.

Just because the law passed doesn't mean it'll happen. It'll be easy to stop.

Just like that Assault weapons ban and t hat 50 BMG ban and that "permit" HSC card for handguns and one gun a month were stopped.
Please.
Can you say "condo in Nevada?"

X-NewYawker
06-20-2008, 1:27 PM
:mad:I had that same thought. And what about the reloader that uses his brass 10+ times. With all the overstamps the microstamps will be pretty much impossible to read I would think.

;)

They already HAVE an answer to that. Ready?


BAN RELOADING!

People making t heir OWN deadly bullets?
I'm surprised that haven't started yet -- wait -- they have -- they want "taggants" in gun powder so they can trace it -- I'v understand that would also make it degrade faster so you could not "stock pile" reloading components.

These folks may act dumb, but they aint. They're boiling the frog as we speak.