let me get this right, no barrel = no rifle

[savageevo]

Let me get this right. If a barrel is not attached to a rifle even though the reciever has a pg and folding stock attached and open magwell, it is not a aw because its not a rifle without a barrel regardless of the evil features attached. thanks all.

[brokestudent12]

do you mean upper receiver? because if there's a bolt/carrier in there that isn't rimfire i guess it could be argued that it's a centerfire weapon without the barrel in it.

if upper isn't attached yes that's right, it's not semi or centerfire.

[savageevo]

It could be a few rifles, for example an ak. If everything is attached except for the barrel, what is it. Another example would be this, I stumbled at this web sit and saw that the barrel can be removed. http://www.featherusa.com/page3.html

check out the video on this rifle. the video depects the .22 rifle but the 9mm and the 45 disassembles the same way.
http://www.featherusa.com

These would be viable to have if it had a fixed stock in which they have a a2 adaptor, no FH and if the pistol grip was made like the MM.

[M. Sage]

Even without a barrel, you still have a rifle. As long as there's a rifle receiver, you have a rifle.

Depending on how disassembled it is depends on whether or not it's semi-automatic or simply "N/A" at the moment. I believe that's what you're getting at.

[savageevo]

I remember Bwiese stating that a rifle without a barrel attached but has other evil features is not a aw. So if it has the bolt action attached in the reciever but does not have a barrel it is still a AW with evil features attached. Here is another example. Ar15 with evil features, open mag, PG, collapsable stock, upper attached with bolt assembly BUT NO barrel attached. What would that be? AW status on No AW status. thanks

[bwiese]

I remember Bwiese stating that a rifle without a barrel attached but has other evil features is not a aw

Please quote me correctly. I said "upper", not barrel.

Also, because of the definition of AW, it completely falls out of that category due to lack of 'semiauto' and 'centerfire' even though it may or may not be a rifle.

Don't extrapolate this too far, because a "broken AW" (i.e, just missing a bolt carrier) is still an AW. There was an LA case that dealt with this regarding an Imbel FAL and it appears it did not come out favorably for the guy (there were lotsa other problems including illegal interstate sale etc. apparently). You start testing the law & judge at that point.

So if it has the bolt action attached in the reciever but does not have a barrel it is still a AW with evil features attached. "Bolt action"? I don't understand you. But if you are saying you have a complete AW (with bolt carrier, everything else) and just missing a barrel you might be in a world of hurt.


Here is another example. Ar15 with evil features, open mag, PG, collapsable stock, upper attached with bolt assembly BUT NO barrel attached. What would that be? AW status on No AW status. thanksAnyone with an IQ of 50 would stay away from it.

The exception would be an AR OLL with all evil features with NO GAS SYSTEM (i.e. removed gas tube + blocked gas port and perhaps no buffer/spring assy) is demonstrably a nonsemiauto rifle and therefore out of scope of SB23. Similar logic applies to a similarly-configured rifle w/22LR rimfire upper.

It is important to differentiate between...
- a collection of disassembled parts;
- a 'broken' rifle missing a part that- if reinstalled - rifle becomes an AW;
- a rifle with features configured to not violate SB23 definitions.

The case of an intentionally-fitted manual cycle nonsemiauto rifle is in severe contrast with a rifle with a bad gas system that just happens not to cycle without manual action. In the latter all the parts are there; in the former, the removal of the gas tube and blocking of the gas port with 1/2" upside-down stub gas tube and lack of buffer/spring all show intent of nonsemiauto action.

Lack of "constructive possession" only goes so far.

[savageevo]

thanks again for the information Bwiese. This came up because if someone wanted to build up a CA configured rifle specifically an ar and they wanted to build it up in stages and the last part they wanted to add was a barrel. What stage of a build and what was added to the reciever would make it a aw.They just needed to know at what stage it would constitute an AW. You answered the question. Thanks again.

[bwiese]

thanks again for the information Bwiese. This came up because if someone wanted to build up a CA configured rifle specifically an ar and they wanted to build it up in stages and the last part they wanted to add was a barrel. What stage of a build and what was added to the reciever would make it a aw.

You should build it up comfortably away from any AW status.

If there's a risk the upper could make it an AW, have the mag lock (Prince50, BulletButton, etc.) + fixed mag installed in the lower first.

Many people build up their bare lowers installing the Prince50/BulletButton+ fixed mag FIRST before doing anything else.

Now, if your upper does not have a flash hider or forward grip, and there's no folder/telescoping stock on the lower - then go gripless or MonsterMan.

In fact I tell new folks building ARs to avoid getting FHs on their upper. They don't do most mere mortals any good (FH usefulness depends on the ammo/powder as well!) and they restrict flexibility.

[pdq_wizzard]

The exception would be an AR OLL with all evil features with NO GAS SYSTEM (i.e. removed gas tube + blocked gas port and perhaps no buffer/spring assy) is demonstrably a nonsemiauto rifle and therefore out of scope of SB23. Similar logic applies to a similarly-configured rifle w/22LR rimfire upper.
.

I know there are more informed people here than me, but I thought even if you have a striped OLL with the pistol grip attached it would be an AW??? (if you buy a complete lower online and they send it to CA they will disassemble it before shipping)??

[fun2none]

I know there are more informed people here than me, but I thought even if you have a striped OLL with the pistol grip attached it would be an AW??? (if you buy a complete lower online and they send it to CA they will disassemble it before shipping)??

The 12276.1 assault weapon statute uses the term "rifle", not "rifle receiver" nor long arm receiver. In practical terms, which may not necessarily equate to the legal definition, a RIFLE is a (1) shoulder fired firearm, meaning it has a stock , (2) it must be able to fire a cartridge or ignite a combustible propellant, (3) must have a rifling in the bore.

In my opinion, an AR-style lower receiver with a stock is NOT a RIFLE. It's a RIFLE RECEIVER. The assembled receiver cannot fire an unexpended cartridge. Lower receiver assemblies with stock and FCG are sold on the open market as "receivers" not rifles.

The question is whether the court/LEO/DOJ make a clear definition between a RIFLE and RIFLE RECEIVER.

[ohsmily]

I know there are more informed people here than me, but I thought even if you have a striped OLL with the pistol grip attached it would be an AW??? (if you buy a complete lower online and they send it to CA they will disassemble it before shipping)??

Ask yourself, "Is a lower WITHOUT an upper a semi-auto centerfire rifle? Answer: No --> does not fall within AW by feature category.

[bwiese]

...but I thought even if you have a stripped OLL with the pistol grip attached it would be an AW??? (if you buy a complete lower online and they send it to CA they will disassemble it before shipping)??


That was the product of initial hyperconservatism when the whole OLL thing started at end of 2005.

We've known (since Aug 2006) that a lower receiver with pistol grip and/or telestock is NOT a "semiauto centerfire rifle". This issue was dealt with in legislative analysis of AB2728 [and some of the logic there (combined with wording in 12276PC) even shows that possession of a *listed* stripped receiver is defendable].

Also, a virgin receiver without a stock ain't a rifle since it's not intended to be fired from shoulder.