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Spaniard
06-15-2008, 8:53 PM
For those of you participating in the 2008 SCPRC heads up. I am sending out an e-mailer today so if you don't get it let me know.

Were within 30 days and closing so it's coming fast.

Regards, Spaniard

PistolPete75
06-16-2008, 8:23 AM
got your email. did you make the roster yet? wondering if i can shoot with jason chan, ryan kerr, and joe hernandez? half the fun in a match is whom i shoot with.

rksimple
06-16-2008, 10:03 AM
Got it. Would be nice to see the squads.

Spaniard
06-16-2008, 5:33 PM
I do the squadding during the last week of the match and you'll see the list when you check in. The final week tells me who's coming and who isn't and from there I get the teams built up. As of now we have 36 shooters to be spread over 6 teams.

It worked great for us last year so I like to keep what works and improve on what needs tweeking.

Got to go, the medallions are ready for pick up, very cool. You'll see those real soon. Prize table is growing too...;)

Spaniard

Vu 308
06-16-2008, 6:03 PM
One of those silver ones have my name on it this year........:43:

wildcard
06-16-2008, 6:14 PM
Dibs on the pellet gun.

PistolPete75
06-16-2008, 6:42 PM
Dibs on the pellet gun.


pump action? the old school ones that you can pump like 10 times can do some damage. perfect for bird shooting.

postal
06-16-2008, 6:54 PM
Nope- red ryder- Old school!

Timberwolf
06-16-2008, 8:25 PM
One of those silver ones have my name on it this year........:43:

Is that what color the BB Gun is, if so I've got that all wrapped up - but if you're real nice I'll let you borrow it for N/S :p

Spaniard
06-17-2008, 5:10 AM
Some of you have e-mailed me (NO PM'S) on team squading and as I mentioned we do that the week of the event and post it at the check in and that will remain so.

You can however send me a "Request" via e-mail, I don't do PM's all the time because I don't always check, but e-mail I do almost everyday.

Also send me your name and who you would prefer to be teamed up with, I don't know everyone's CIA secrect squirrel aka so real names only. send them to: info@socalprc.com

Again, no guarantees on team preference, it may or may not happen keep that in mind, just depends on how the teams get spread out.

Spaniard aka Mark Archuleta

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 4:48 PM
Spaniard
what is a shamag and does that mean that anything that is wrapped around the neck is good to go? Last year about 10-12 shooters ( including the ones that finnished at the top) were taking rocks,bags and several other things and put them under the back of the gun and said it was ok because their hand was between it and the rifle, is this going to be allowed this year? I also saw, as did others, shooters taking off their glove and using it as a rear bag, will this also be allowed?
And so you know I am not blaming this gaming and bending of the rules for me finishing in the middle of he pack, I blame my lack of skill only. I would like to know the rules that will apply to all so that I, and several others that have mentioned these issues can have the same advantages.
Thanks
n&nspop

rksimple
06-18-2008, 4:59 PM
Spaniard
what is a shamag and does that mean that anything that is wrapped around the neck is good to go? Last year about 10-12 shooters ( including the ones that finnished at the top) were taking rocks,bags and several other things and put them under the back of the gun and said it was ok because their hand was between it and the rifle, is this going to be allowed this year? I also saw, as did others, shooters taking off their glove and using it as a rear bag, will this also be allowed?
And so you know I am not blaming this gaming and bending of the rules for me finishing in the middle of he pack, I blame my lack of skill only. I would like to know the rules that will apply to all so that I, and several others that have mentioned these issues can have the same advantages.
Thanks
n&nspop

+1. I think this really needs to be crystal clear. The "no rear bag" rule makes for problems in deciding what is and isn't a rear support.

Spaniard
06-18-2008, 6:54 PM
I appreciate the questions and you should have a cyrstal clear idea on what is "Fair". Also, we do the best we can, however I,we, can't be everywhere and see everything.

The "Shamagh" if that's spelled correctly is rag worn around the neck. The Frog wears one because he thinks he's on the African Range and he is hunter yes, ragh ragh....mon sherrie'....something French like that...:rolleyes:

He wears it "Around" the hand as a glove and I said it's ok. The rock under the glove trick? Yes I can see gaming there because I said you can use a shooting glove and did not specify if a rock could be used. To be honest I didn't think I had to, but yes gamers abound.

I'll be more specific at the match, no rocks under the gloves.

I have another mailer going out, about some of these grievances.

Thanks for asking because you should know.;)

Spaniard.

rksimple
06-18-2008, 7:10 PM
Thanks for the info Mark! Guess I gotta get a shamagh.

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 7:48 PM
If it is now ok to use a shamagh to wrap around your hand, then wont it open the door for more stupid things like someone using a towel or blanket?

rksimple
06-18-2008, 7:57 PM
If a shemagh is OK, I don't see why a small towel wouldn't be the same. I guess if its wrapped around your hand...hmmm...

wildcard
06-18-2008, 8:04 PM
If a shemagh is OK, I don't see why a small towel wouldn't be the same. I guess if its wrapped around your hand...hmmm...

Line has to be drawn somewhere.. else somebody could get a towel or shemagh sized piece of leather which would make one heck of a rear rest when rolled up!

Or how about a glove with a cavity full of poly beads in the palm?

rksimple
06-18-2008, 8:06 PM
Yeah, I agree. I'm thinking as long as its wrapped around the hand and the hand is ultimately being used as the rest. But it aint my call to make.

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 8:07 PM
Im just tired of some of the dumb rules that only some people have to follow. At last years match, on the second day about 10-12 shooters used all kind of things including bags-including top finishers. I just want the same rules for everyone

rksimple
06-18-2008, 8:11 PM
Im just tired of some of the dumb rules that only some people have to follow. At last years match, on the second day about 10-12 shooters used all kind of things including bags-including top finishers. I just want the same rules for everyone

Once again I agree. I think thats why most all matches allow a rear support, be it a bag or a mono pod. Its the in between that becomes problematic. As long as its laid out clearly and enforced, I don't think it'll be an issue.

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 8:16 PM
You are right,the line has to be drawn.The rules said only an approved shooting glove could be used. Now if I had not brought this up and everyone showed up to the match and this frog guy is using a shamagh and no one else knew that HE had been given permission wouldnt you be pissed and feel like you have been cheated?

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 8:18 PM
Use a bag or not doesnt bother me just make it fair or the same for everyone

rksimple
06-18-2008, 8:21 PM
I understand. Everyone needs to be on the same page.

Cypriss32
06-18-2008, 8:24 PM
Use a bag or not doesnt bother me just make it fair or the same for everyone

Sounds like it does to me.

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 8:27 PM
I was at a match when several shooters that were at the last match when this happend and a couple that are shooting this years match and all had the same feelings. What I hope it doesnt come to and what a guy named Don ( dont know his last name -he shoots a 243) said is that it is Marks match and he can run it any way he sees fit to and know one is forcing me to shoot it. True, but hopefully that wont be the way this match turns out to be again.

rksimple
06-18-2008, 8:27 PM
Is there a special reason why rear bags aren't allowed at this match? Is it the great equalizer? Is it to discourage gaming? Forgive my ignorance, but in every other match I've shot, rear bags were OK when prone. I didn't know if there was a reason I was overlooking, seriously. Not trying to be an a**.

N&NSPOP
06-18-2008, 8:28 PM
Sounds like it does to me.

Then read the rest of the post. Just make it even across the board

DON AUGUSTINE
06-18-2008, 8:43 PM
N&NSPOP
I remember talking to you at a match with everyone else pissing and moaning about how and why the match is run a certain way, and when I made the comment to you about it is Marks match that was only part of it, I also told you and everyone that was there that if you had a problem or did not like what happend or the way he ran things that any of you could and should let him know and voice your opionion. Then I said if you dont like it you dont have to shoot it.
And yes I know why you are bringing it up and it is not because they wount let you use a rear bag. I beleive you were the Fclass shooter or Palma shooter and that you never use a rear bag-are you the person I am thinking of?

DON AUGUSTINE
06-18-2008, 8:48 PM
Ryan
As long as I have known Mark he has never allowed rear bags. Its nothing special its just the way he likes to run his matches.
DON

rksimple
06-18-2008, 8:54 PM
Thanks Don. Just wondered if there was another reason. Every match is different and thats what makes it interesting!

DON AUGUSTINE
06-18-2008, 8:57 PM
Are you shooting his match?

rksimple
06-18-2008, 9:00 PM
Yep. I missed both the scprc and the nor cal match when I was on vacation last year. I'll be at both this year. My wife's having a c section a week before the norcal match this year. She still says I can go. Lets hope she says that come august!

Timberwolf
06-19-2008, 8:19 AM
IIRC Mark allowed rear bags, monopods etc the first coupl eof years he ran the matches - he stopped the fall before the first SCPRC, Don't know why, don't particularly like it and never really have since most of the shooting is done off a concrete pad, but his house his rules . . . as long as they are all applied equally.

Vu 308
06-19-2008, 9:07 AM
Im just tired of some of the dumb rules that only some people have to follow. At last years match, on the second day about 10-12 shooters used all kind of things including bags-including top finishers. I just want the same rules for everyone

You left out that one rule Mark mentioned....NO WHINING.

Mark's match, Mark's house, Mark's rules.

wildcard
06-19-2008, 9:09 AM
You left out that one rule Mark mentioned....NO WHINING.

Mark's match, Mark's house, Mark's rules.

"The BBQ beans are too spicy.." Wish I could have been there to see that at your match :)

Vu 308
06-19-2008, 9:14 AM
Is there a special reason why rear bags aren't allowed at this match? Is it the great equalizer? Is it to discourage gaming? Forgive my ignorance, but in every other match I've shot, rear bags were OK when prone. I didn't know if there was a reason I was overlooking, seriously. Not trying to be an a**.

Ryan...just a preference man to be honest. Mark like to roll this way and I happen to disagree but still fully support him.

We have a few COFs up here with no rear artificial support as well. As match directors one can easily add a level of difficulty by taking most shooters out of their comfort zone.

Personally I have stopped using the rear rest completely. I just run with a Creedmore Shooting Glove.

Vu 308
06-19-2008, 9:16 AM
"The BBQ beans are too spicy.." Wish I could have been there to see that at your match :)

LOL...I think I still have those AARs some where.

We actually sit down for a debrief after the show is over and read all those things. I was like WTF...if that is the biggest complaint I have its all good.

Don was kind enough to share his expeiences with me on scoring so our scoring system is improved this year as well.

No more staying up to 2AM saturday night in my truck trying to un-fu*k the scoring issues.

rksimple
06-19-2008, 9:38 AM
Ryan...just a preference man to be honest. Mark like to roll this way and I happen to disagree but still fully support him.

We have a few COFs up here with no rear artificial support as well. As match directors one can easily add a level of difficulty by taking most shooters out of their comfort zone.

Personally I have stopped using the rear rest completely. I just run with a Creedmore Shooting Glove.

I can see having a few COFs run without one, but out of necessity. Where having a bag would slow you down from one position to the next, extreme angle shots where you can't get enough height, improvised positions, barracades, etc. When you have time to go prone, you normally have time for a bag. No big deal though. I like your idea or just a good, dedicated shooting glove. I'm sure you could do just as well with a good glove and a lot of practice. So just a standard creedmore glove, huh? Can you point me in the right direction? Is creedmore sports a good place to start for all the highpower getup?

Timberwolf
06-19-2008, 9:44 AM
I can see having a few COFs run without one, but out of necessity. Where having a bag would slow you down from one position to the next, extreme angle shots where you can't get enough height, improvised positions, barracades, etc. When you have time to go prone, you normally have time for a bag. No big deal though. I like your idea or just a good, dedicated shooting glove. I'm sure you could do just as well with a good glove and a lot of practice. So just a standard creedmore glove, huh? Can you point me in the right direction? Is creedmore sports a good place to start for all the highpower getup?

I'll show you a couple of options at the June match - you'll find with an AICS stock a good set of thick leather fingerless gloves like I use will better fit the hook, plus as low a position as the AICS allows just holding the hook may be sufficient.

Vu 308
06-19-2008, 9:47 AM
Ryan,

I actually find myself shooting tighter without a bag. A lot of people think its BS but world glass palma guys can't be all wrong.

Creedmore makes a nice fingerless glove that has some shape and support to it. With that glove I do not miss my rear bag what so ever.

A glove also forces you to really suck in your stock and focus on every lil detail because you can not just lay on it like you can a bag.

Vu

Spaniard
06-19-2008, 4:28 PM
Vu,
Call me brother, I need some Advil. You feel my pain brother, only a fellow den mother can know. And don't worry, you'll be getting yours over Labor Day weekend and then I'll be laughing.

Oh the pain..........the pain..............ohhhhhh:willy_nilly:

After the match is over and I decrompess in the pool under the influence of Gentleman Jack, I ask myself, now why do I do this again....:90:

Ya'll best be careful, this keeps up the only time you folks will be prone is at the motel room.

Thanks Don for splaining it for me.

take no offense people, I'm just stirring the pot too, I think I can do that.

Spaniard...

Pthfndr
06-19-2008, 6:29 PM
Ryan,

I actually find myself shooting tighter without a bag. A lot of people think its BS but world glass palma guys can't be all wrong.

Creedmore makes a nice fingerless glove that has some shape and support to it. With that glove I do not miss my rear bag what so ever.

A glove also forces you to really suck in your stock and focus on every lil detail because you can not just lay on it like you can a bag.

Vu

It took me what, a year and a half, to make believers out of our guys. Now about 1/3 to 1/2 of them have dropped the rear bag in favor of a glove.

For me, the glove makes it more comfortable for my hand when it's sitting on rocks, burrs, thorns, etc, and gives the rifle a better surface to move on than my skin. Especially if the sling swivel or stipling on the stock hits it.

It also doubles as a some what padded surface to rest the rifle on when shooting off a barricade. Again, without tearing up ones hand.

The nice thing about regulation shooting gloves is they have some padding across the back of the hand and on the palm. That is so when slung up tight ala High Power or Palma the sling doesn't dig into the back of the hand, and the padding on the palm reduces pulse transmitted to the rifle.

This me with a Creedmoor glove (one of the many they make) and my K31 (spanked Vu with it).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Pthfndr/ShootingGlove.jpg

Vu 308
06-19-2008, 6:34 PM
Yes...Rob..you made me a believer...+ dont forget the glove is handy when you have to slap someone. lol

Vu 308
06-19-2008, 6:37 PM
Vu,
Call me brother, I need some Advil. You feel my pain brother, only a fellow den mother can know. And don't worry, you'll be getting yours over Labor Day weekend and then I'll be laughing.

Oh the pain..........the pain..............ohhhhhh:willy_nilly:

After the match is over and I decrompess in the pool under the influence of Gentleman Jack, I ask myself, now why do I do this again....:90:

Ya'll best be careful, this keeps up the only time you folks will be prone is at the motel room.

Thanks Don for splaining it for me.

take no offense people, I'm just stirring the pot too, I think I can do that.

Spaniard...


Nah bro...my ROs have gotten the green light to stop the whining with whatever means. Shawn is freakin wound up TIGHT so ya'll be careful on the line with that boy. The PRINCIPLE will lay the smack down.

rksimple
06-20-2008, 8:50 PM
About the glove, I would've called you guys crazy had I not gone out and tried it myself. I was working in some loads using military brass today so I wanted to test for accuracy. I got mediocre results when I was benched and bagged. I decided to go prone and use only my gloved hand under the stock, if nothing else just for practice. This is what happened: (sorry for the crappy cell pics)

I shanked my second round on this one:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/0620082138.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/0620082137.jpg

You guys may be onto something! BTW, love the k31 Rob. What do you run through it?

Vu 308
06-20-2008, 10:14 PM
Ryan...he gave me a load to use in mine. 44.0gn of RL15 and a 175 a lil off the lands.

Load shot fine out to 550 on steel. Shot a lil below sub MOA at 100yards 3 shot groups.

Vu

Vu 308
06-20-2008, 10:15 PM
By the way..the glove rocks man. I've switched all my stocks over to A5s and use the magic glove.

Vu

rksimple
06-20-2008, 11:12 PM
Hell yeah the glove rocks! I tried 44.0 of rl15 in military brass (RA60) with the 155 scenar at 2.830" for 2875 fps (es=25, not bad, but not good). Thats the load that shot those groups with nothing but the glove. I shot out to 600 with it and the data from field firing solutions was right on. Thanks man!

PistolPete75
06-21-2008, 1:34 PM
k, i'm a little confused. gloves are good to go, but can i wrap a hand towel or bandana around my hand instead of wearing a glove?

Pthfndr
06-21-2008, 4:15 PM
By the way..the glove rocks man. I've switched all my stocks over to A5s and use the magic glove.

Vu

You need to post a picture of what your glove says. Those socal guys would love it.

Spaniard
06-22-2008, 7:33 AM
I'll be working on SCPRC stuff today if I don't get called out to work (HEAT STORM REPAIRS).

However, let me touch on the rag, towel thing versus the glove issue that seems to be the talk of the town for some reason. One of our comeptitors, the "Frog" said he didn't want to buy a shooting glove for the SCPRC and wants to travel light, being the cyber ninja, jetti nite / secret squirrel he is I said sure why not as long as it used in lieu of the glove. I see no tactical advantage in its use over a glove. I also told him that he will have 50 sets of of eyes on him since it is different and people may think he has an edge, but he doesn't. If you gave me choice between a rag and a glove, it's a glove everytime. I use rags to wipe my guns down and little else.

So you folks know, I don't care for rear bags and don't want them around my matches, it's a competition. I want to know how YOU, your RIFLE and AMMO shoot as a combined UNIT. A shooting glove is a known tool for competitions for recognized rifle shooting events all around the world and a good tool to use. More versitile than a bag and weighs less too.

Now before I get bombarded with e-mails about other competitions, what difference does it make etc. it's a closed discussion, NO REAR BAGS or REAR MONPODS, simple, end of story.

Now back to the rag or shamagh as the Frog calls it, I call it a rag myself. If you choose to use a head scarf/Rag with nothing in it, sand, beans, rocks etc. "WRAPPED AROUND YOUR HAND AS IF IT WERE A SHOOTING GLOVE" that is fine with me. You can also opt to use nothing as well. Allow me to illustrate my point and going back to the first SCPRC back in 2006.

Shannon Kay won the 2006 SCPRC, this competitor I really did admire for several reasons. He was cool, calm and collected, he was all business and professional until after the event was over, then he decided to max and relax.

I never saw him get jumpy or disturbed, very quiet and those are the guys that my Father said to keep an eye on life. He didn't talk much, he simply delivered. He also used two types of gloves and sometimes no glove.

After about midway through day one his lead was beginning to be quite secure and by day two, all he had to do was shoot a par score and he would have taken the match. I am posting pictures for your perusal.

Now listen up, I have no issue with some of you folks asking about this and I will go over it again, but don't spend allot of time on this. When you shoot the match you may come to see it was a non-issue and that may be a big clue to what kind of shooting we will have this year. I recently saw a clip of something on Military Channel of a show coming up and the instructor said about 85-90% of shooting over in country for Bolt folks was done from makeshift positions, and very little from the prone. Another clue;)

What I do want is for you guys to all do well and what I need is for you folks to focus and get into "The Zone". Spend the time you would on this subject and apply it to your positional shooting, your minds eye, focus on breathing, sight picture and the crisp break of the trigger.

Tiger Woods sees the tournament in total, all 18 holes and how he plans to win, you should too. You will pull a shot here and there, learn from it, move on and let it go. This isn't a Tony Robbins speach either, I just want all of you to be safe, do well and focus your attention on what will help you win.

Take a look at the 2006 SCPRC Overall Winner, Mr. Shannon Kay, to glove or not glove. This is a true professional and a "Real Operator" in that kind of business. His employer at the time and still is as far as I know is the US ARMY and has spent time in the current theater. You can figure out the rest.

Stay cool folks and practice up and don't overlook dry firing in all positions and practice those mag changes, all of this should be second nature with no fumbling around. The match is NOT THE PLACE TO PRACTICE, IT IS THE PLACE TO COMPETE. There are only two of these events in California, one here and one up at Vu's house come Labor Day, make them count.

Regards, Spaniard
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/patriotspaniard/DSCF2167.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/patriotspaniard/DSCF2179.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v515/patriotspaniard/DSCF2193.jpg