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bobgengeskahn
06-10-2008, 10:00 PM
So I think I've got it. I've got the rifle, I've got the pistol... next is a shotty. So what would you guys recommend for 3-gun? Ideally I would get a Benelli M3... but that is years in the future. So right now I'm just looking for a good starter that will not break the pocketbook getting one yet I can do enough work and mods to it to make it a decent tactool. When it's not being used for 3 gun it'll probably just be used for trap. For this reason I've been thinking one of the more "tactical" mossy 500s or the Remington 870.

savasyn
06-10-2008, 10:12 PM
Benelli M1Super90. Find a used one and don't look back. You'll really be happy to have a semi-auto for 3 gun.
If you also want a pump, get whichever is on sale at Big 5, you can't go wrong with either the Mossy or the Remington.

randy
06-10-2008, 10:14 PM
The M3 is NOT the shotgun for 3 gun. In fact it's a bad idea all around. Do not aspire to a roach.

Prowler
06-10-2008, 10:15 PM
Check the for sale thread. I believe there was a Benelli M1Super90 for sale last week. That's the one, or the M2...listen to RANDY ;)

FlyingPen
06-10-2008, 11:08 PM
What about a Saiga?

Quiet
06-10-2008, 11:16 PM
Go with a Benelli M-1 Super 90 or M-2 Super 90 or the Remington 11-87.

What about a Saiga?
Reloading a maglocked Saiga-12 would be too slow to really be competative.
And for what you would be paying for a CA legal Saiga-12, you could have a Benelli or Remington and have them before you got the Saiga-12.

FlyingPen
06-10-2008, 11:22 PM
I also heard of Mossberg 930 being a 3 gun friendly shotgun.

Where's a good source to buy Benelli Shotguns? Bud's doesn't seem to carry them.

SuperSet
06-10-2008, 11:27 PM
Anyone carrying the Mossberg 930 SPX in the Bay Area? I handled it a bit at the Raahauge Sports Fair and was really impressed.

randy
06-10-2008, 11:33 PM
So far the 930 I've been around is working and holding up great.

If you want to use one for 3 gun my recommendation would be to get the field model have the barrel chopped down and put in screw in chokes. It has been working great so far.

It is heavier than a Benelli and lighter than a Remington.

You'll have to compare prices on the Mossberg with the chopped down barrel and the Remington 22" barrel model with the mag extension.

The 930 is more reliable and has handled all the loads we've shot through it.

If $$$ isn't a problem I'd still buy the Benelli but I never thought I'd recommend a Mossberg.

FlyingPen
06-10-2008, 11:34 PM
What's the recommended final barrel length then?

MAX100
06-11-2008, 12:08 AM
Benelli is a great shotgun but cost to much. There are some very good lower cost alternatives. If you do decide on a Benelli later on the M2 for 3 gun is the way to go. Some of the top champs shoot the M2. You need a shotgun with at least 8+1 capacity.


The Mossberg 930 field gun with the barrel chop down to 21" or 22" bbl would be a good way to go. It would give you 8+1 capacity and the total with the bbl work and tube ext would run about $550. The 930 is a very reliable shotgun with all ammo and no shell lifter lock to deal with.

I own two custom NEF Excell auto 5 shotguns that would be excellent also. They are very reliable with all ammo and no shell lifter lock. With the bbl work and tube ext total would be about $475. They must be reliable I bought two of them and turned them into custom shotguns..

Excell Auto 5 20.5" BBL 8+1 capacity, set of TruGlo rib mounted ghost ring sights.


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/ExcellA5-1-2.jpg


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/ExcellA5-3.jpg



Mossberg 930 SPX 7+1 capacity with tactical oversize bolt handle.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/SPXHS-4.jpg


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii299/MAX100/SPXHS-5.jpg

trinydex
06-11-2008, 1:06 AM
it appears these have ghost ring sights. do they have to be sighted in? i went to the range with my mossberg 590 and i couldn't hit anything, i had to aim off paper to get on paper. i looked and realized later that the front sight post was drifted to one extreme, overall it looks like less than a mm of adjustment, would this put me at over 7" off at 50yards?

sorry for the thread jack but i asked in the ghost ring thread and no one answered.

randy
06-11-2008, 1:10 AM
If you are running a barrel clamp that can throw off the sites. Changeing the placement of the barrel clamp and how tight it is and /will effect your POA POI.

bobgengeskahn
06-11-2008, 2:29 AM
What sight style is preferable for 3 gun? ghost rings, bead or a scope/red dot of some kind?

uscbigdawg
06-11-2008, 4:25 AM
Benelli M1 or M2 and I'll not go back unless something is MUCH better.

As for sights, I prefer a rear peep and fiber optic front. The dot on the front is great for the close stuff and the rear allows for aiming when we have the occasional slug shots out to 100.

Rich

brassburnz
06-11-2008, 6:38 AM
Check the for sale thread. I believe there was a Benelli M1Super90 for sale last week. That's the one, or the M2...listen to RANDY ;)

I bought the Benelli that was on the boards. Haven't had time to fill out paperwork, but it's a done deal.

After I posted "I'll take it", I was talking to Yar and he said I should have gotten a barrel with screw in chokes. The sale price was $800 for a used Benelli M1 Super 90.

I was saving for an M2, but Randy and Yar said the M1 is the way to go.

ar15barrels
06-11-2008, 8:47 AM
I was talking to Yar and he said I should have gotten a barrel with screw in chokes.

I'm getting the setup to install thinwall choke tubes in barrels such as your 18 cylinder bore barrel.

I ended up with an extra M1S90 just like yours that does not have choke tubes either.
I did not think it would matter much until the first match I used it in a few weeks ago had a 25yd steel plate that would not go down with multiple center hits.
My main M1S90 has chokes and I keep an IC tube in it.
The difference between cylinder and improved cylinder was suprising.

bobgengeskahn
06-11-2008, 9:06 AM
as far as Benelli goes... what is the performance difference going to be between an M1, M2 and (for my sake of curiousness) an M3? all 3 are semi (the M3 is semi/pump) and you can get shorter/longer barrels for all 3...

ar15barrels
06-11-2008, 9:12 AM
as far as Benelli goes... what is the performance difference going to be between an M1, M2 and (for my sake of curiousness) an M3? all 3 are semi (the M3 is semi/pump) and you can get shorter/longer barrels for all 3...

The M2 requires bolt carrier modifications before you can ghost load.
I think late M1s need the modifications too.
Both my M1's are 10+ years old, but I have re-worked the new ones to make them work like old ones.
I don't think you can ghost load an M3 because of the operating system differences.

apbrian112
06-11-2008, 10:46 AM
i'm running a m1s90 w/ the following mods:
-dmw extended tube (8+1)
-dmw charging handle
-arredondo bolt release
-rob melhorn performance package (smooth as butter...)

i don't see myself getting another 3-gun shotgun for a looooooong time... go benelli and never look back...

uscbigdawg
06-11-2008, 3:21 PM
When I get home, I'm planning on the M1 getting the Rob Melhorn wonder job done. My M2 is done from Benny Hill. Love it and can't wait to see what Rob will do to the M1 though.

Rich

MrTuffPaws
06-11-2008, 4:21 PM
Before getting my saiga, I ran with a 20ga 870 with 21" barrel and tube extension. Never had an issue.

MAX100
06-11-2008, 4:33 PM
Benelli is costly. I would go with a Mossberg 930 field cut down. You will be seeing more of these shotguns turning up in 3 gun matches because they are well suited for them.


GC

apbrian112
06-11-2008, 7:02 PM
or a FN SLP 3-gun ready shotgun, they made on pretty much ready out of the box for 3-gun with a 8+1 capacity, 21" barrel, FO front sight... i believe that this varient of the SLP was discountinued but you may be able to find one. CWS had one a while back, don't know if they sold it or not.

pac531
06-11-2008, 7:10 PM
Is a pistol grip stock available for the 930?

MAX100
06-11-2008, 10:22 PM
Is a pistol grip stock available for the 930?


Choate has one available but Choate stocks are not pretty. The 930 is going to stay around and more accessories will be available for them.


GC

grywlfbg
06-11-2008, 10:57 PM
Reloading a maglocked Saiga-12 would be too slow to really be competitive.
And for what you would be paying for a CA legal Saiga-12, you could have a Benelli or Remington and have them before you got the Saiga-12.

We're working on the mag-lock reloading thing :D And my brand-new Saiga was <$500 - WAY cheaper than a Benelli ;)

But the bigger problem with the Saiga is that in most rulebooks it puts you in Open class.

But it'll be interesting to see how the Saiga/Benelli battle plays out in the free states in the hands of the top shooters.

randy
06-12-2008, 12:00 AM
The Saiga/Benelli war started at last years Ft. Benning match. The Saiga lost real big. But then so did all the other open class guys. Taran was bumped into the open class because his Benelli held 9 rounds in the tube. Different matches different rules allow what you can have. He started with 8but because he could load 9 they bumped him up.

He won anyway, loading his shotgun by hand, no sticks no mags.

LIFEWITHOUT
06-12-2008, 6:30 PM
If I could only have one shotgun for the rest of my life, it would be the M1 Super90 without a doubt. Some of them even say HK and Benelli on them for cool points.

FlyingPen
06-13-2008, 1:06 AM
Ok so it seems i can get a new Mossberg 930 SPX for $550 or a used Benelli M1 Super 90 for $50 more, what's the better choice? Here's the description on the M1:

"Benelli M1 Super 90 12 ga. H&K model Sn: In 95+% condition 20" barrel, Rifle Sights, Extended Magazine, Sling and 50 round bandolier"

How does the FN SLP MK 1 compare to these two?

randy
06-13-2008, 3:02 AM
I had an HK Benelli they are 20 plus years old. Doesn't matter if it has been taken care of. One advantage is you can "ghost load" them with no modifications. The gun you are looking at uses rifle sites I'd prefer them to a GH setup. Ask how many rounds you can fit it the tube. Any less than 8 and you will need to buy a longer tube. It might stick out past the end of the barrel but who cares.

If the Mossberg is their ghetto blaster model and not the field model I'd pass. On the Mossberg I'd get the field model and spend the extra $$$ on shortening the barrel and adding choke tubes and a new front site.

So far the Mossberg we are using has worked real well. I'm trying to get it for the match Saturday at Piru. If I do everybody is welcome to shoot it.

randy
06-13-2008, 3:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKZTHQlAY9E&NR=1

I felt the same way about my Remington 1100. There wasn't a pond near buy but it did get a good beating on a barricade to get it to work so I could finish a stage. Sold it the same day.

tankerman
06-13-2008, 6:18 AM
I thought this was a shotgun forum, what hell is a "shotty".

Two Shots
06-13-2008, 8:12 AM
I'm disappointed, 32 post before anyone asked about the word "Shotty". Thanks tankerman :)

SuperSet
06-13-2008, 9:56 AM
If the Mossberg is their ghetto blaster model and not the field model I'd pass. On the Mossberg I'd get the field model and spend the extra $$$ on shortening the barrel and adding choke tubes and a new front site.

So far the Mossberg we are using has worked real well. I'm trying to get it for the match Saturday at Piru. If I do everybody is welcome to shoot it.

Randy,
Just so I get the right one, are you talking about the 930 SPX or the Field Model?

MrNiceGuy
06-13-2008, 10:49 AM
Nobody consider the Benelli M4 for 3-gun? Why not?

gose
06-13-2008, 11:05 AM
Nobody consider the Benelli M4 for 3-gun? Why not?

- Due to 922(r) and the lack of US made parts, you can't legally get it to hold 8+1
- It's more expensive than M1/M2s

It's a decent shotgun and I'm sure it's being used in it's neutered state in smaller competitions, but for anything more serious the M1/M2 is the way to go.

sb_pete
06-13-2008, 11:55 AM
Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm just curious. What does "ghost load" mean?
Thanks

ohsmily
06-13-2008, 12:22 PM
Here are several articles about various shotguns for 3 gun matches.

It appears that the Winchester Super X2 and the Browning Auto5 (same action) had the fastest actions of any of the auto shotguns. The author was able to pull the trigger on Benelli faster than the gun could cycle, resulting in a hammer that followed the bolt and didn't fire the gun.
http://www.multigun.com/articles/speedshotgun.pdf

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/features/detail.asp?ID=72

http://tacshooter.wordpress.com/category/shotguns/
I would describe my personal experience with the Winchester Super X2 as phenomenal; I love that shotgun.

Keep an eye on the new Super X3 as well.

MrNiceGuy
06-13-2008, 1:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNiceGuy
Nobody consider the Benelli M4 for 3-gun? Why not?

- Due to 922(r) and the lack of US made parts, you can't legally get it to hold 8+1

Thx Gose!
There's some folks on the Benelli forum working on US parts for the M4 for awhile now (but so far vaporware...sigh).

gose
06-13-2008, 1:08 PM
Thx Gose!
There's some folks on the Benelli forum working on US parts for the M4 for awhile now (but so far vaporware...sigh).

There's a guy on here working on some parts as well (same guy?)

ar15barrels
06-13-2008, 4:21 PM
I thought this was a shotgun forum, what hell is a "shotty".

Ghetto Speak for "Shotgun".
Often used by those with sub-par educations to impress other ghetto dwellers.

ar15barrels
06-13-2008, 4:26 PM
Sorry for my ignorance, but I'm just curious. What does "ghost load" mean?

On Benelli's capable of ghost loading, you can fill the magazine tube, then put one on the carrier and one in the chamber.

My 18" benelli has a 7 round mag tube.
I load it with 7+1+1 rounds.
The same length remington (or any other brand) would only hold 7+1.

I like the shorter barrel for getting around barricades and in/out of ports.

nsginc
06-13-2008, 4:46 PM
Just reading through this and 992r came up. I was planing on using a Browning Gold for 3gun. Shotgun is sitting at the ffl and new tube and handle are in the mail. Did I just screw up? If so how many parts do I need to be safe. Is there link that explains this? Thanks guys

FlyingPen
06-13-2008, 6:12 PM
Does the FN SLP and Mossberg 930 SPX share the same class?

tankerman
06-13-2008, 6:54 PM
It appears that the Winchester Super X2 and the Browning Auto5 (same action) had the fastest actions of any of the auto shotguns. The author was able to pull the trigger on Benelli faster than the gun could cycle, resulting in a hammer that followed the bolt and didn't fire the gun.



I would describe my personal experience with the Winchester Super X2 as phenomenal; I love that shotgun.

Having not participated in 3 gun and not knowing course or target layouts; is it possible to acquire targets as fast as you can pull the trigger?

ar15barrels
06-13-2008, 11:34 PM
Just reading through this and 992r came up. I was planing on using a Browning Gold for 3gun. Shotgun is sitting at the ffl and new tube and handle are in the mail. Did I just screw up? If so how many parts do I need to be safe. Is there link that explains this? Thanks guys

922(r) only applies to foreign manufactured guns.

ar15barrels
06-13-2008, 11:35 PM
Does the FN SLP and Mossberg 930 SPX share the same class?

As benelli?
No.

922(r) would apply to the FN though.

ar15barrels
06-13-2008, 11:37 PM
Having not participated in 3 gun and not knowing course or target layouts; is it possible to acquire targets as fast as you can pull the trigger?

That depends on how good you are.
I have run plate racks where I out-shot an 1100, but a benelli was able to keep up with me.
You are talking split times around 0.15 before it's an issue...
It's a very rare occaision indeed where you run out of cyclic rate on a shotgun.

randy
06-14-2008, 12:12 AM
Super set

The Mossberg 930 Field 28" vent rib barrel. This shotgun belongs to Dave Lavwer www.davesmetalworks.com. He cut it down to the same length to fit a 8 round mag extension and threaded it for screw in chokes, and put on a new front site.

This gun has run almost flawless so far 1k+ rounds through it. The only problems it had was cycling the old style Winchester lo recoil slugs. Since they don't make those anymore and it ran the new style without a problem I'm ok with that.

I was going to take it to Piru in the morning but because of work and some communication problems I won't be able to.

If every thing goes good I'll take it to the 3 gun match at West End on the 28th. If you are there you are welcome to shoot it. Bring your favorite ammo.

I do not recommend the cheap Winchester Super Sport stuff at Wal Mart. Some friends and myself bought a bunch of those shells and we all started having problems. Looking at the shells you could see the crimps were belled out and would jam the gun. Great for practice clearing a jam but really killed your time.

The cheap Federals are not a problem and run fine and are made well. I personally shoot Estate 7.5 and 8 and Focchi spreaders, Winchester Ranger Lo Recoil slugs and 00 buck when they call for it. 99% of the time I'm using a IC choke. The other choke I've used is a modified. I've shot slugs through the modified choke no change in POA/POI from the IC.

The biggest effect I've seen on changing your POI is the barrel band. Do whatever you have to do to keep it in one place and tighten it the same every time.

I just looked at a new Benelli M2 21" field gun yesterday $1230. The 930 is much cheaper about a third the price. There is a pretty good market for hotrodding the Benellis to the tune of $300 to $500 bucks over and above the cost of the gun.

The 930 will benefit from some of the same mods but all and all it has run "as is". Is it as good as a Benelli no plain and simple. Will it keep you from winning? Maybe if you are at the top it could. For the rest of us who knows.

The Benelli M4 doesn't hold enough rounds. With the mag extension it only holds 7 in the tube. Do to how the barrel is held on the gun I don't know if anybody is making an extension that sticks out past the barrel. Also www.davesmetalworks.com has made 2 of the three parts needed to please 922r.

I've been shooting 3 gun since the 90's. I try to compete 2 to 3 times a month this last month or so it was everyweek. I am not very good at it WTF (way to fat) but I have a good time. I do have all cool guns and know what works and what doesn't.

I will try and post some pics of some of the mods you can do to your Benellis with only a dremel and a file. My guns aren't as hotrodded as "the boys" but they work everytime for me.

what2be
06-17-2008, 12:00 AM
- Due to 922(r) and the lack of US made parts, you can't legally get it to hold 8+1
- It's more expensive than M1/M2s

It's a decent shotgun and I'm sure it's being used in it's neutered state in smaller competitions, but for anything more serious the M1/M2 is the way to go.

Umm..educate me please.

The US made extension tube goes to 7+1 on the benelli M4, how is it even possible to get 8+1? AFAIK, the M1 and M2 are the same. (7+1)

as far as 922(r) goes, I thought you needed less than 10 imported parts to make it legal for use in the US? There is someone right now in the benelli sites forum that has prototypes of hammer, trigger and disconnect. There are already plenty of people that make aftermarket (US made) mag tube, follower and handguard so the way I understand it is that when the hammer, trigger and disconnect start being more readily available,it will be legal, (but at 7+1).



Another post in this thread was recommending the FN SLP for 3 gun. It only holds 6+1. I'm not understanding why someone would pick the FN SLP over the M4. I guess my question is, why WOULDN'T the M4 be considered a good 3 gun shotgun?

tia..

FlyingPen
06-17-2008, 12:13 AM
Ok did some more research on Mossberg 930s.

Choate makes a pistol grip and a 9 shot mag tube.

So if I get something like an SPX, can I add the pistol grip and 9 shot tube to get 9+1?

http://www.RifleStock.com/catalog_page_detail.cfm?recordno=3&Product_CatalogID=2958&ProductNumber=02%2D04%2D33&ProductCode=27&ProductSubCodeID=178&NewProduct=0

I really like the FN SLP I checked out at the store but it seems with 922r, it'll be hard to add a pistol grip and mag tube later on.

macguyver77
06-17-2008, 12:15 AM
How can you own this in California? I thought the shotgun with a detachable mag was a no no.


Before getting my saiga, I ran with a 20ga 870 with 21" barrel and tube extension. Never had an issue.

FlyingPen
06-17-2008, 12:16 AM
How can you own this in California? I thought the shotgun with a detachable mag was a no no.

magazine lock

randy
06-17-2008, 5:50 AM
The M4 barrel mounts differently than the M1 and M2.

On the M4 the retaining ring for the barrel is at the end of the barrel then the mag tube nut goes on to hold the barrel in place. The M1 and M2 the retaining ring for the barrel is down the barrel and slips way down on the tube. The retaining nut is a pass through design and you can put a longer tube on it.

what2be
06-17-2008, 8:39 AM
The M4 barrel mounts differently than the M1 and M2.

On the M4 the retaining ring for the barrel is at the end of the barrel then the mag tube nut goes on to hold the barrel in place. The M1 and M2 the retaining ring for the barrel is down the barrel and slips way down on the tube. The retaining nut is a pass through design and you can put a longer tube on it.

ahh.that makes sense. So for 3 gunning, is it pretty much mandatory you want the 8+1 vs the 7+1? Or do people shoot competitively with the 7+1?

randy
06-17-2008, 9:48 AM
Lots if not most stages are designed to shoot 8 rounds before you move. With 8+1 you still have a round in the chamber you just need to fill the tube. Going dry with a shotgun is not conducive to winning.

Another thing is most people can grab and load 4 rounds at a time from a shell caddy. If you shot 7 you would load 4 then only be able to load 3 which means you'd have to shoot with one in your hand.

I hope this helps.

what2be
06-17-2008, 11:50 AM
Lots if not most stages are designed to shoot 8 rounds before you move. With 8+1 you still have a round in the chamber you just need to fill the tube. Going dry with a shotgun is not conducive to winning.

Another thing is most people can grab and load 4 rounds at a time from a shell caddy. If you shot 7 you would load 4 then only be able to load 3 which means you'd have to shoot with one in your hand.

I hope this helps.

Makes perfect sense. One other question.
Why was I reading on another forum that the saiga guy was getting his butt kicked? He attributed it to him just not being as good as a shot as others (he finished 3rd at the ft.benning 3gun shoot last year) but I would think the saiga would be more popular. Especially with the 10 round mags.

FlyingPen
06-17-2008, 12:05 PM
Woohoo.

Just bought this, minus the surefire.

M1 Super 90

http://i26.tinypic.com/8x92qo.jpg

randy
06-17-2008, 1:02 PM
The mags put you in open those guys with the speed loaders are pretty fast. You still have to shoot two other guns.

The overall winner loaded his gun by hand one round at a time.

Stage design can have a lot to do with wheather the Saiga will have an advantage. Missed shots with a Saiga can kill you on time. Here's an example. Lets say there are 4 bird shots then 4 slugs shots. You get a jam or miss a target you have to take an extra shot but you can't just stuff one in like you could do with a tube gun. So you have to change mags make up your shot then change again to get to your slugs. Or you take a miss which can be 10 seconds. This might not be a perfect example but it might give you an idea.