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Glin1216
06-07-2008, 11:11 PM
Recently I had been involved in a small altercation with a certain Police Department. The situation ended with the confiscation of my handgun (S&W M&P45) and a small pink slip with the words "Defendant's Copy" across the top. I've been advised not to go into anymore details on this matter.

At the moment this is not my primary concern... once the dust settles I am interested in seeing how I am going to go about re-obtaining possession of my firearm. I've searched the boards high and low using keywords "confiscation" and "confiscated" with little to no luck. From what I've gathered , I am going to need to fill out a LEGR (Law Enforcement Gun Release) form, shoot it over to the DOJ along with the appropriate fees, wait patiently for a notice from the DOJ, and then bring this notice to the PD to get my M&P45 back. Is this process an easy as it sounds or will I be headed home empty handed? I'm really interested in those with first-hand experience with this procedure.

While browsing the other related threads, I noticed a few calgunners saying, "Your weapon is long gone, take the hit and get a new one." This was mainly in response to those who were legitimately "in-the-wrong." (Which I believe I am not)
Unfortunately for me this is not really an option; the M&P45 was a gift from my Grandfather (I had filled out the appropriate FD4544A and sent the $19 check to the DOJ long ago); as such the weapon has some sentimental value to me and I would prefer if it didn't dust-over in some evidence room at that particular Police Station...
My M&P45 had gone through 500+ rounds that day at the range and was not cleaned other than a quick rubdown and lube application. It is in dire need of a scrubbing that I would prefer not be delayed any longer than it already has been.

As always; I am hoping the minds at CalGuns may be able to help me. At the time I am a Marine Corps reservist on my annual training cycle and will have very limited access to a computer. That being said, any opportunity I have to use a web browser I will be headed directly to this page. A close friend will be monitoring this thread closely and sending messages to my phone anytime the thread is updated with new information.

Thanks gents for any information you can provide

Ken H
06-07-2008, 11:56 PM
Well not knowing the facts of your case it will be somewhat difficult to give you an exact answer.

DOJ has no control whatsoever with what a local PD or Sheriff's department does in confiscating firearms. You don't file anything with DOJ when a local PD took your gun.


Confiscating firearms are usually done when a criminal complaint is to be filed, or in certain circumstances guns are taken for safe keeping in domestic violence or cases of mental health issues.


Again not knowing what your case is about, not much advise can be given to what we don't know about. Speculating does nothing but cause problems.

Whatever the issue, the court handling the case will either decide the weapon will be released back to you, or order it destroyed, depending on what the issue is.

That's the best answer anyone can give you...Good luck.

hawk1
06-08-2008, 6:21 AM
Not sure what Ken H is writing about but you generally have it correct with the LEGR process. Keep in mind you will need to have a resolution to whatever problem that put you into this mess. They will not release anything until that happens. ie, found not guilty, charges dismissed, etc... Just letting the "dust settle" won't be enough. Your attorney should be advising you on this as well. If he's not, get another one that will.
Good luck

Beelzy
06-08-2008, 7:06 AM
IMO, unless the case is dismissed through the court your gone is not going
anywhere. Get an attorney if you want any chance at getting the gun back.

tango-52
06-08-2008, 7:12 AM
The PD will not release the weapon until the matter is closed: i.e conviction, settlement, or acquittal. If convicted, you will not get the weapon back and you will likely lose your right to own firearms for ten years. If a settlement is made (i.e. plea bargain), the disposition of the weapon will be part of the negotiation. If acquitted (or the charges are dropped), then you will have to hound the PD to release the weapon. Once they have agreed to release it, then you do the DOJ paperwork. Expect this process to take several months. Good luck.

Ken H
06-08-2008, 9:03 AM
Not sure what Ken H is writing about but you generally have it correct with the LEGR process. Keep in mind you will need to have a resolution to whatever problem that put you into this mess. They will not release anything until that happens. ie, found not guilty, charges dismissed, etc... Just letting the "dust settle" won't be enough. Your attorney should be advising you on this as well. If he's not, get another one that will.
Good luck

Sorry hawk maybe I did miss something, if the gun was purchased by glin on the 4454 form back whenever, he'd show as the original owner on the PD's system. I have not heard of the the form before, is it something new, if so my apologizes on all the above...

What penal code section does the LEGR fall under???

Not sure what DOJ has to do with the release of a handgun taken by local PD as evidence/safekeeping.

If handgun was taken for safekeeping, after I believe 72 hours it can be released back to glin.

If criminal complaint filed and then dropped a minute order from the court is all he needs unless the judge declares the firearms a nuisance, then it's destroyed.

Yes if criminal trial pending all will have to wait until disposition.. A simple motion before the court asking for release of the firearm is all that was needed in the past.

hoffmang
06-08-2008, 12:32 PM
Having recovered the Milpitas lowers I'm intimately aware of how the firearms release process works.

1. Some are partially correct - the LEA will have to have decided not to forward charges to a DA or the DA will have had to have decided to not file or dropped charges. If either of those has occurred, proceed to step 2.

2. Once you're clear of the LEA and DA or you've waited somewhere in the 30-90 day range, you are required to file a LEGR form with DOJ. CA LEAs are not allowed to release firearms to their owners without a LEGR. When you get the approved LEGR back from DOJ, take it to the LEA and ask for return of your firearm. If they resist returning your firearm, go home and mail a certified letter that includes the LEGR (or a copy) demanding return of your property.

If the above steps don't work, contact one of the Calguns Foundation folks like me and we'll help you from there.

-Gene

Ken H
06-08-2008, 12:45 PM
Where does one find this LEGR information??? Thanks.

Librarian
06-08-2008, 12:54 PM
Where does one find this LEGR information??? Thanks.
Here (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/legrinfo.php).

On January 1, 2005, the Law Enforcement Gun Release (LEGR) process became effective with the addition of Penal Code (PC) section 12021.3. This process requires any person who claims title to any firearm that is in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency and who wishes to have the firearm returned to submit a LEGR Application form for a determination by the Department of Justice (DOJ) as to whether he or she is eligible to possess a firearm.

LEGR Application Submission Process

Individuals seeking the return of a firearm(s) that is in the custody or control of a court or law enforcement agency must submit a LEGR Application along with the appropriate fees to the Department of Justice (DOJ). A firearms eligibility check will be conducted to determine if the applicant is lawfully eligible to possess firearms. A notice of the results will be sent to the applicant. The notice must be presented to the court or agency within thirty (30) days of the date of the notice. Failure to do so will result in the need to submit a new application and fees and undergo another firearms eligibility check.

Submission requirements and processing fees are available on the Law Enforcement Gun Release (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/legr.pdf) (LEGR) Application.
DO NOT use any other firearms transaction form or PFEC application to apply for a LEGR.


PC 12021.3 is too long to quote here. Search Penal Code at
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html

Ken H
06-08-2008, 12:59 PM
Thank you, I missed that new law and retired just after it was introduced.

Apologize to all...;)

Glin1216
08-23-2008, 8:12 AM
Finally done here...
On the 20th of this month, I managed to finally get my S&W M&P45 back from the Chino Hills PD.

It was a relatively long ordeal but the gentlemen at Trutanich-Michel, LLP were helpful throughout. Joe Silvoso specifically helped work on my case. Several months back my weapon was confiscated when I experimentally open-carried the M&P45 unloaded. The argument of the Chino PD officers was that since I had loaded magazines on my person (Read: Weak-side hip) I was technically carrying a "loaded" weapon. The informed population of Cal-Guns knows that this is false.
I would like to personally thank all the folks at Trutanich-Michel, LLP for helping me throughout this entire ordeal, and Liberty1. When I first posted about my experience, Liberty1 was quick to send me a PM and advised that I remove the information so as to prevent damaging my case. He personally walked me through the entire process and gave me tips on how to proceed with legal action.

ALSO COMPLETELY FORGOT TO MENTION!
A HUGE thanks goes out to Gene Hoffman and the Board of Directors at the CalGuns Foundation, they funded this entire effort from beginning to end! Without them, none of this would have been possible. I am extremely grateful for these people and sleep better knowing at night that folks like this are still in California.

By the way, the process to obtain a confiscated handgun is relatively simple.
Send the LEGR form out, be sure to send to the Firearms Division at the DOJ; This sped up processing times significantly (I had to send two LEGR's, the one I sent to the Firearms Division was processed 3 weeks faster than the one I did not), call the PD and arrange for a meeting with someone in evidence, show up and pay the storage fee (~$100.00) and leave with your handgun.

big50_1
08-23-2008, 8:20 AM
It sounds like there was some ignorance on the part of the arresting officers. Any idea if there was any retraining on their part? Will you get any of the money you paid back? Basically, you had to fork over bucks and go through a hassle because they didn't have their s__t together! Does that sum it up?

Glin1216
08-23-2008, 8:28 AM
It sounds like there was some ignorance on the part of the arresting officers. Any idea if there was any retraining on their part? Will you get any of the money you paid back? Basically, you had to fork over bucks and go through a hassle because they didn't have their s__t together! Does that sum it up?
I have no idea if there was any retraining on their part, but I'm assuming that there was not. In the end it was the district attorney who made the call. The arresting officer probably still thinks he was "in the right."

Basically, you had to fork over bucks and go through a hassle because they didn't have their s__t together! Does that sum it up?
You're right on target with this statement, big50.

hawk1
08-23-2008, 8:46 AM
Can you say what this whole ordeal has cost you monetarily? It would help those that want to open carry fully realize what their action will cost if arrested falsely.
Not sure, but were you arrested as well?
Glad you were able to get your weapon back.

Glin1216
08-23-2008, 8:59 AM
Not quite. I was never taken to the PD, I was simply detained at the time and I sat around while several officers discussed what to do. At the time they seemed as baffled as I was...

The LEGR was $19.00 (They have a 1 month expiration date from the time you receive the letter)
The "Storage Fee" was $114.00

The entire situation could have been avoided if I had an Open-Carry pamphlet, I now carry a laminated copy in my wallet.

WhoDat
08-23-2008, 9:07 AM
Wow, that's over $50 a month!

Nice work, if you can get it...


The "Storage Fee" was $114.00

falawful
08-23-2008, 9:32 AM
I wonder could you sue for the money back that they charged you for the LEGR and storage?

fleegman
08-23-2008, 10:24 AM
All of this makes me think that, with the crazy laws and jittery misinformed LEO (not to mention jittery citizens), it makes much more since, if you feel you MUST carry, to unlawfully carry loaded and concealed than to lawfully UOC.

hawk1
08-23-2008, 10:27 AM
I wonder could you sue for the money back that they charged you for the LEGR and storage?

Would be nice to get that money back and stick your finger in their eye at the same time...:D

File a claim with their city. If they deny it then you will have a right to sue in court. It would cost them more than that to send a city lawyer out to defend.

battleship
08-23-2008, 10:38 AM
The open carry pamphlet were can i find this on calguns.

gotgunz
08-23-2008, 10:39 AM
Not quite. I was never taken to the PD, I was simply detained at the time and I sat around while several officers discussed what to do. At the time they seemed as baffled as I was...

The LEGR was $19.00 (They have a 1 month expiration date from the time you receive the letter)
The "Storage Fee" was $114.00

The entire situation could have been avoided if I had not been Open-Carrying in the first place; even though it is technically legal.

There, fixed it for you.... :rolleyes:

jazman
08-23-2008, 11:35 AM
Any idea of what it would have cost if Trutanich-Michel, LLP had charged their normal fees? Do you think if you had a copy of the OC laws and showed it to the police they would have given you your gun back and not proceeded?

Glin1216
08-23-2008, 12:16 PM
Any idea of what it would have cost if Trutanich-Michel, LLP had charged their normal fees? Do you think if you had a copy of the OC laws and showed it to the police they would have given you your gun back and not proceeded?
I have no idea... but I'm sure it would have been high. I'm very thankful for the good folks at Trutanich-Michel, LLP and Joe Silvoso specifically for walking through the situation with me. At one point I was quoted as to how much the services were going to cost, and at the time it simply did not seem logical to drop this much money when I could have easily purchased the same handgun for less; but that would be throwing in the towel, and this specific M&P had some sentimental value for me.

I believe if I had an Open-Carry pamphlet and showed it to them at the time they would have looked into it a bit deeper before writing me off and sending me packing. At the time I was relatively un-informed and only knew what I read... in fact they did a pretty good job of convincing me I was in the wrong. When I went home I figured I must have misread something here on CalGuns... it wasn't until I came home to read some more that I realized they were wrong.

big50_1
08-24-2008, 6:52 PM
This thread has been interesting. I kinda' knew this but this thread reaffirmed the basic confusion that exists from top to bottom in the legal system. You can be legally right but still "lose" because the darn court costs kill you! Also with all the overlapping communities and potential gun restrictions in each different community, you could be 900 ft (yds?) from a school that you didn't know was there and get zapped when you thought you were O.K. Basically, you don't know where you stand until you go through a court case. Believe me, I'm in total support of OC in a legal way. BUT reading all this, from this point forward why would anyone put themselves in the hands of ignorant LE to find out that the law, written in plain English, that you read and correctly understood will be used as a hammer to beat you up. Mainly because it's not the law that is the problem (for sake of argument) but the system where lack of LE training will cause you to spend thousands to fight this in court. If I have to spend thousands to hire a lawyer and fight a law suit, I've "lost"! I don't have money to burn. So, will I OC? Not likely!