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wildcard
06-05-2008, 12:31 PM
A 19.5" barrel kicks like a mofo compared to 26"

Mirage at 18X can really screw with you

The SH IOR mounted on MY rig currently gives me enough elevation to shoot up to 700 yds only. Good enough for SCPRC. Anyone have a Rem 700 SA 20MOA base using 8-40 screws I can use till the end of October?

The dang windage knob won't spin freely to zero when the screws are loosened.

What a irritating shooting day especially when you're trying to zero.. at least my rig grouped well.

Timberwolf
06-05-2008, 12:35 PM
A 19.5" barrel kicks like a mofo compared to 26"

Mirage at 18X can really screw with you

The SH IOR mounted on MY rig currently gives me enough elevation to shoot up to 700 yds only. Good enough for SCPRC. Anyone have a Rem 700 SA 20MOA base using 8-40 screws I can use till the end of October?

The dang windage knob won't spin freely to zero when the screws are loosened.

What a irritating shooting day especially when you're trying to zero.. at least my rig grouped well.

Is this a new bolt gun? If so we'll start calling you "stubby".

wildcard
06-05-2008, 12:37 PM
Is this a new bolt gun? If so we'll start calling you "stubby".

Same gun.. just chopped it down.

Timberwolf
06-05-2008, 12:38 PM
Same gun.. just chopped it down.

Stubby it is - you'll look like Joe now - what's his a little under 18.

wildcard
06-05-2008, 12:41 PM
Stubby it is - you'll look like Joe now - what's his a little under 18.

Yeah. His is 18. Too much of a velocity sacrifice between 20" and 18" though.

His is shorter.. but thicker.

Timberwolf
06-05-2008, 12:44 PM
His is shorter.. but thicker.

TMI :eek:

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 12:58 PM
A 19.5" barrel kicks like a mofo compared to 26"

You did put the brake back on it right?

wildcard
06-05-2008, 1:04 PM
You did put the brake back on it right?

Heck yes I did. I can't remember what an unbraked .308 feels like.. but I definitely feel it more than when it was 26".

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 1:23 PM
I definitely feel it more than when it was 26".

How much does the piece that you sawed off weigh?

wildcard
06-05-2008, 1:28 PM
How much does the piece that you sawed off weigh?

Going by feel and memory.. about 20 rds of loaded 168gr 308 ammunition.

Prc329
06-05-2008, 1:41 PM
Why did you chop her down?

wildcard
06-05-2008, 1:46 PM
Why did you chop her down?

Bored. Wanted to balance better when slung up. Almost no performance difference compared to 26". Cool factor :)

Timberwolf
06-05-2008, 1:48 PM
Gotsa know - how does it look with that stubby barrel and the soup can on the end?

wildcard
06-05-2008, 1:54 PM
Gotsa know - how does it look with that stubby barrel and the soup can on the end?

I'll post a pic up tonight.

Timberwolf
06-05-2008, 1:55 PM
just bring it on Saturday

Cypriss32
06-05-2008, 2:02 PM
It was really windy today. My stupid target kept blowing around.....

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 2:05 PM
Good thing the wind never blows when we are shooting. ;)

Cypriss32
06-05-2008, 2:05 PM
It would be bad enough hits were all over the paper.

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 2:14 PM
A couple weekends ago, down in Pala, I was holding 3 full mils of wind to get on target at 890 in the afternoon.
That's some wind.

wildcard
06-05-2008, 2:20 PM
It was really windy today. My stupid target kept blowing around.....

Wouldn't have been so bad except it was gusting from 5 - 30 and in different directions varying by the minute.

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 2:39 PM
Wouldn't have been so bad except it was gusting from 5 - 30 and in different directions varying by the minute.

You have never shot at WEGC have you? :eek:

FlyingPen
06-05-2008, 2:47 PM
20" vs 26" with 308 makes no performance difference?

Fate
06-05-2008, 2:58 PM
The wind was really blowing earlier. Could hear the range quite well. Maybe some of those reports were yours!

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 3:12 PM
20" vs 26" with 308 makes no performance difference?

Inside 600yds, not much.
He will be in pain past 800 though.

wildcard
06-05-2008, 3:17 PM
20" vs 26" with 308 makes no performance difference?

I'll need to chrono to confirm.. but here's something published for you to read :) http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

wildcard
06-05-2008, 3:18 PM
Inside 600yds, not much.
He will be in pain past 800 though.

Not with my load :)

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 3:27 PM
Not with my load :)

What's your load?

wildcard
06-05-2008, 3:30 PM
What's your load?

Light :)

42.4 gr of IMR4064 pushing a 168SMK

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 3:34 PM
Light :)

42.4 gr of IMR4064 pushing a 168SMK

OAL?

wildcard
06-05-2008, 3:39 PM
OAL?

2.82"

Timberwolf
06-05-2008, 4:09 PM
Light :)

42.4 gr of IMR4064 pushing a 168SMK

You've gone old school - the old HP load is 42.5 IMR4064 with a 168SMK in a FGMM case.

wildcard
06-05-2008, 5:09 PM
You've gone old school - the old HP load is 42.5 IMR4064 with a 168SMK in a FGMM case.

Yup. Purposely chosen so that I can use factory FGMM loads in a pinch.

FlyingPen
06-05-2008, 6:11 PM
I'll need to chrono to confirm.. but here's something published for you to read :) http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

Really interesting article.

Why not just go with an 18"? It seems it's only a 30fps change.

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 6:58 PM
Quickload/Quicktarget estimates:
42.5gr IMR4064
168 SMK
2.8" OAL
51,162 PSI (mild load)
Zeroed at 100yd with 1.97" scope height

26" barrel 2654 fps 26.10 MOA to 800yds
24" barrel 2612 fps 27.21 MOA to 800yds
20" barrel 2512 fps 29.98 MOA to 800yds
18" barrel 2451 fps 31.86 MOA to 800yds

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 7:01 PM
Why not just go with an 18"? It seems it's only a 30fps change.

Remember that the article is referencing velocities with a suppressor installed.
Guns shoot faster with a suppressor because the suppressor adds effective barrel length.

It's a 60fps change without a suppressor on the barrel.
That's 2 MOA at 800yds.

rksimple
06-06-2008, 6:19 AM
I'd like to see the chrono results. The norcal match is probably going to be rough on you past 800. Especially with 168's. Time to come to the dark side...scenars...

Cypriss32
06-06-2008, 6:24 AM
Or 300win mag........
Ryan so these girls..... im allways lusting for a chance to meet girls that like shooting and are not worried about guns.

rksimple
06-06-2008, 6:40 AM
Well I'll see what I can do. They want to get together on a wekend to shoot. Theres only one thats single, and she only moderately interested. The others are married.

Tacticalintervention
06-06-2008, 7:04 AM
Velocity as it relates to bbl loength has to do with several varibles

1. BBL quality and tightness. A good bbl will produce more velocity from same loads
2. Powder and bullet tuned for bbl. If the load powder is picked for short tube it will generally be better with faster powder. If its for long tube you can run slower powder and get more velocity

Done right the longer tube, with it being equal to shorter tube in quality will kick butt for velocity.

Its all about picking what works best for the bbl length you have.

the Gold Medla Match 168s where designed to run in 22" M14 Gas Guns which because of gas pressure loss is really equal to about 19-20 bolt gun.

If I take that same 168 and load with slower powder and run in long equal quality tube I will beat your velocity by a bunch. There are reasons we run 30" 308 bbls in F TR. Velocity is one of them. Now if I could get a shorter bbl to work as well I would do so but have not been able to yet.

Certainly would not shoot 168s at 1000 yards as that bullet is easily beaten by many other offerings

My points are simple

If you start with a longer bbl and load to its potential you can develop more horsepower than with a shorter tube.

If you use factory ammunition designed for shorter bbls you wont see as much increase in performance from a longer bbl because that powder was designed to be used up in a shorter tube.

I think the biggests thing holding back the 308 is the 175 and 168 grain bullets. 175s are far better than 168s but both suck compared to good 155 bullet pushed hard. I think the newer 155 Scenars and new 155.5 Bergers are the right weight for the caliber. Better velocity and same BC. Shoots flatter and with less wind drift.

wildcard
06-06-2008, 7:09 AM
I'd like to see the chrono results. The norcal match is probably going to be rough on you past 800. Especially with 168's. Time to come to the dark side...scenars...

After SCPRC i'm switching to 300 WM :) I'd rather do that than blow more money buying a 20 MOA base for the .308.

I have a Seekins base on order for the 300 WM. Hopefully his estimate of 1 week is accurate.

Tacticalintervention
06-06-2008, 7:23 AM
I like that new 1500.00 plus rifle instead of 100.00 base. Should be president. LOL

wildcard
06-06-2008, 7:32 AM
I like that new 1500.00 plus rifle instead of 100.00 base. Should be president. LOL

Ha.

I've had the Rem 700 Sendero sitting in storage for just about a year now. Bought the thing for $550. This gives me an excuse to build it up :) Plus I don't have to worry about bullets failing at 1000 yds. Going to load up some A191 ammo.. tweak it a bit.. and call it a day.

Tacticalintervention
06-06-2008, 8:06 AM
Wildcard, switch to 155 Scenars, run H4895 for powder and you wont have worries at 1000 yards with a 308. Stick to 168s and continue to fail at 1000 yards. I run 155s 2900-3100fps depending on rifle and bbl length. All do well with the .50 BC bullet (BC as it has actually figured in my rifles not advertised) Does not take Rocket Science to figure a better BC at higher velocity will work better.

Since you are complaining about a 308 with brakes kick I fear you will have hard time with 300WM and are going down wrong road. But WTF do I know. Have at it.

ar15barrels
06-06-2008, 8:10 AM
I think the biggests thing holding back the 308 is the 175 and 168 grain bullets. 175s are far better than 168s but both suck compared to good 155 bullet pushed hard. I think the newer 155 Scenars and new 155.5 Bergers are the right weight for the caliber. Better velocity and same BC. Shoots flatter and with less wind drift.

I am very happy with my 155 SMK's at 2900fps.
Roughly 20MOA elevation to 800yds. :)

wildcard
06-06-2008, 8:12 AM
Since you are complaining about a 308 with brakes kick I fear you will have hard time with 300WM and are going down wrong road. But WTF do I know. Have at it.

No.. not complaining about it.. it was just noticably more because that JP Brake is so damn efficient. I'm not THAT recoil sensitive. I've been avoiding that 155 Scenar load since I haven't had problems using my 168 SMK to reach 1000. Then again, I haven't shot much under 2000 ft elevation.

Tacticalintervention
06-06-2008, 8:15 AM
155SMKs are easy to make shoot well but give up about .050 BC to both Berger 155.5 and Lapau 155s. Thats a bunch at 1000 yards.

Its not about reaching 1000 yards its about hitting at 1000 yards.

Never needed a brake on a 308 and dont undertsand brake for anything less than heavy 300WM loads unless shooter has bad shoulder that needs protection.

ar15barrels
06-06-2008, 9:00 AM
155SMKs are easy to make shoot well but give up about .050 BC to both Berger 155.5 and Lapau 155s. Thats a bunch at 1000 yards.

I have 500 155 scenars sitting here to play with, but I don't want to change my load and re-learn a new dope right before the upcoming matches.
Therefore, I just ordered some more SMK's.
We rarely shoot past 850 in southern california.

I'm re-barreling this fall anyways so that will be a good time to try the Scenars when I have a nicer/shorter throat for them.

rksimple
06-06-2008, 9:49 AM
We rarely shoot past 850 in southern california.



Isn't that the truth? 168 FGMM could win any of these local matches just as easily as the 7wsm we hear so much about. The norcal match is where the 6s and 6.5s will most likely dominate.

Cypriss32
06-06-2008, 2:56 PM
7wsm we hear so much about. .

.........

wildcard
06-06-2008, 3:32 PM
..7wsm we hear so much about..

Now how is that fair? He don't just hear about it anymore.. he shows up now and even beat our butt at the last match. We have to at least be quiet until we out score him :)

Plus I saw some of those groupings from the 7wizzle first hand. Granted that thing is fully custom.. I can't out perform it with my rig :(

Cypriss32
06-06-2008, 3:41 PM
Plus I saw some of those groupings from the 7wizzle first hand. Granted that thing is fully custom.. I can't out perform it with my rig :(

That was ****ty shooting too..... BUT I needed to seat bullets out further AGAIN........
SMKS, are looking good. 2.915 according to Chris Mathews at LSR.
Shoot them till that barrel goes poop. Then use my other SUPER tight barrel for the 180s.

ar15barrels
06-06-2008, 4:07 PM
That was ****ty shooting too..... BUT I needed to seat bullets out further AGAIN........

Shtty shooting or not, that's competition.
It brings out the worst in all of us.

Get used to seating bullets further out.
That's going to be changing every 50-100 rounds as the throat wears.

Cypriss32
06-06-2008, 4:19 PM
I know. Check your Pms Brother. I need AR finished.

Prc329
06-06-2008, 6:39 PM
I really like the scenars in my rifle. It is not as accurate as I would like at 100 but they do tighten up the further out the fly. I have settled on 175s for my plinking, shooting groups at 100 load and still working on (read haven't shot since april) my scenar load. Hey Wildcard if you like I will donate a few scenars for you to monkey around with. I think I have a box lef before I break into my 1000. The scenars are running close to 3000 fps in my rock barrel.

rksimple
06-07-2008, 11:23 AM
Now how is that fair? He don't just hear about it anymore.. he shows up now and even beat our butt at the last match. We have to at least be quiet until we out score him :)

Plus I saw some of those groupings from the 7wizzle first hand. Granted that thing is fully custom.. I can't out perform it with my rig :(

Not dogging on it by any means. We just hear about it more than we see it. This was the first time. It shot some sick groups. And if I didn't care about barrel life, I'd have one in a minute slingin' 180s at 2850+. That'll run right with a 338lm.

PistolPete75
06-08-2008, 10:22 PM
sup guys! i haven't seen you guys in awhile. am i missing out on anything?

ar15barrels
06-08-2008, 10:33 PM
sup guys! i haven't seen you guys in awhile. am i missing out on anything?

Hey, he's alive.

Timberwolf
06-09-2008, 7:55 AM
sup guys! i haven't seen you guys in awhile. am i missing out on anything?

Nah not too much - just the HP match on the 31st and the 22LR match on the 7th . . . other than that its been pretty quiet ;)

PistolPete75
06-09-2008, 8:26 AM
yep, i've been totally mia lately. my family has been priority, and there were some drama with my sister lately. looks like my schedule is about to clear up in a week.

i forgot how my rifle feels like.

looks like the 22lr match went real well. nice turnout!

any calguns drama going on? there always seem to be something.

Timberwolf
06-09-2008, 8:34 AM
yep, i've been totally mia lately. my family has been priority, and there were some drama with my sister lately. looks like my schedule is about to clear up in a week.

i forgot how my rifle feels like.

looks like the 22lr match went real well. nice turnout!

any calguns drama going on? there always seem to be something.

Well I have 12 days left on my warning from the Go Grandma thread, and Adam showed up at the match and actually came in third (heard his hat size expanded) . . .

PistolPete75
06-09-2008, 8:39 AM
yep heard about the last match from Jason. k...i got to run, my daughter is causing lots of trouble at the office. i got to run. see you guys later.

wildcard
06-09-2008, 8:46 AM
Well I have 12 days left on my warning from the Go Grandma thread

You got a warning from that? Did you say something or just for starting it? What a troublemaker.. :)

Timberwolf
06-09-2008, 9:16 AM
You got a warning from that? Did you say something or just for starting it? What a troublemaker.. :)
I guess in the eyes of one of the powers to be I assisted in keeping the thread off topic once it had strayed . . .:rolleyes:

Cypriss32
06-09-2008, 2:42 PM
Well I have 12 days left on my warning from the Go Grandma thread, and Adam showed up at the match and actually came in third (heard his hat size expanded) . . .

LOL

ar15barrels
06-09-2008, 4:05 PM
Adam showed up at the match and actually came in third (heard his hat size expanded) . . .

Don't worry, all that hair product will protect his head. ;)

Cypriss32
06-09-2008, 4:09 PM
Don't worry, all that hair product will protect his head. ;)
You got that right! Ive have nothing but compliments.