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pterrell
02-20-2015, 5:23 AM
Bought my first 1903 today! Serial number date to 1929 made by Springfield. Bore is nice and shiny, stock has seen better days but is solid, and the LGS even test fired it twice in the back before I put money down on it.

What can you guys tell me about it? I'm pretty stoked.

391825
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SonofWWIIDI
02-20-2015, 5:45 AM
I know nothing about it, except that it looks cool and I'm jealous!

Sweet gun!

Congrats.

ccandgc
02-20-2015, 5:51 AM
looks like it was refurbished in 44? They are fun and accurate. Prolly won't be your last one....

DennisCA
02-20-2015, 6:12 AM
Awesome - now go and shoot it!

I think I have some links I can send to you, will look for them later today.

0321jarhead
02-20-2015, 6:23 AM
That's a High Standard barrel. Very good barrels.

If your serial number is above 800,000 you are good to go as receivers are concerned. Other than that they are great rifles. Got a couple myself. A 1903 and a 1903A3.

Enjoy!

Eljay
02-20-2015, 7:13 AM
I have a late one and it's a fantastic rifle. I'm sure you'll really enjoy yours.

pterrell
02-20-2015, 9:48 AM
I'm really looking forward to it. Not sure when it was refurbished but I figured it had to have been. The number is in the 1300000 range.

If I wanted my next one with a scope and have it be correct, what model would I be looking for? I don't want to drill and tap this guy lol

nick
02-20-2015, 9:57 AM
I'm really looking forward to it. Not sure when it was refurbished but I figured it had to have been. The number is in the 1300000 range.

If I wanted my next one with a scope and have it be correct, what model would I be looking for? I don't want to drill and tap this guy lol

M1903A4. Good luck :)

Armistice
02-20-2015, 10:14 AM
M1903A4. Good luck :)

Not an 03A3?

nick
02-20-2015, 10:23 AM
Not an 03A3?

He wants a correct M1903 with a scope. That's an M1903A4 :)

Armistice
02-20-2015, 10:30 AM
Oh the A3 has the updated peepsights or rear sight slider thingy... dur :P

highpower
02-20-2015, 10:55 AM
He wants a correct M1903 with a scope. That's an M1903A4 :)

Not really. Actually, a correct 1903 with a scope is one of several models:

There is the WWI version that could be equipped with either a model of 1908 or a model of 1913 scope made by Warner-Swazey.

Then there is the pre WWII Winchester A5 scoped 1903-A1 as used by the USMC and the WWII USMC '03-A1 National Match rifles equipped with a Unertl 8X sniper scope also used by the Marines.

Of them all, the '03-A4 is the most often encountered and the least expensive. You better have deep pockets for any of them, but the sniper rifles based on a a model 1903 rifle are far and away more desirable and pricy than a lowly A4.

Edited to add: OP your rifle is a high number Springfield that was rebarreled with a High Standard barrel, probably after WWII. The stock shows the usual beating given to these rifles by the Greeks, but it is a "real" 1903 stock rather than a 03-A3 replacement stock.

pterrell
02-20-2015, 1:00 PM
Not really. Actually, a correct 1903 with a scope is one of several models:

There is the WWI version that could be equipped with either a model of 1908 or a model of 1913 scope made by Warner-Swazey.

Then there is the pre WWII Winchester A5 scoped 1903-A1 as used by the USMC and the WWII USMC '03-A1 National Match rifles equipped with a Unertl 8X sniper scope also used by the Marines.

Of them all, the '03-A4 is the most often encountered and the least expensive. You better have deep pockets for any of them, but the sniper rifles based on a a model 1903 rifle are far and away more desirable and pricy than a lowly A4.

Edited to add: OP your rifle is a high number Springfield that was rebarreled with a High Standard barrel, probably after WWII. The stock shows the usual beating given to these rifles by the Greeks, but it is a "real" 1903 stock rather than a 03-A3 replacement stock.

I had figured it was rebarreled at some point. I wasn't going to kid myself that it was original when I saw how nice it looked. I'm glad to hear that it is a "real" 1903 stock vs a replacement. What are the chances that it is original? I know M1 Garands can come with original stocks from time to time. Is 80 years too long for it to survive? Obviously it isn't in my possession yet so I can't really sit down and pour over it for a cartouche or something.

I should probably add that I would be looking for a shooter that I would use while hunting (one day) rather than drilling and tapping an 84 year old rifle.

Anyways, I paid $600 for it. Maybe it was a good deal, maybe it wasn't. Either way, I'm excited to have it :D

EDIT: Would I be out of my mind to refinish the stock? Sand it down a bit and smooth the bumps out then give it a coat of oil or varnish. I wouldn't want to do something that ruins it down the line but the stock is a little on the rough side.

0321jarhead
02-20-2015, 2:06 PM
EDIT: Would I be out of my mind to refinish the stock? Sand it down a bit and smooth the bumps out then give it a coat of oil or varnish. I wouldn't want to do something that ruins it down the line but the stock is a little on the rough side.
That would for sure be taboo and bring you as many years bad luck as is the rifles age.

There are a couple of good books to get that would be of a great benefit for you.

highpower
02-20-2015, 2:07 PM
You did okay at $600. I recently bought one that was made in 1934 with the original barrel but it has been used as much as yours.

In 1929 the stock was stamped on the left side just to the rear of the triggerguard with the initials, D.A.L. in a box with rounded corners.

Behind the trigger guard on the underside of the stock will be a firing proof "P" inside a circle. During armory rebuilds in the US, often, but not always, a second "P" will be stamped behind the original proof if the rifle went through a rebuild. A single "P" without a circle or one in a square box indicates a rebuild where the original stock was replaced.

This is a picture of the left side and the area behind the triggerguard of the stock on a 1906 vintage '03 that I have. It has been through the armory test and rebuild twice, first at Benicia Arsenal (BA-WL stamp) and then through the Philippine Ordnance District Arsenal (POD-D) in Manila before WWII. In the right light you can just see a ghost of the original "JEC" cartouche.The barrel is a 1-19 dated Avis replacement which probably accounts for the second "P" proof behind the original proof.
http://highpower.smugmug.com/Firearms/US-Springfield/Springfield-1903/i-7n2XqQ8/0/XL/IMG_2682-XL.jpg
http://highpower.smugmug.com/Firearms/US-Springfield/Springfield-1903/i-BdwRmvp/1/XL/IMG_3684-XL.jpg

Even if you don't have the original stock it was issued with (which it is doubtful that you do) be happy that you have a genuine pre war stock. Most of the '03's seen nowadays have replacement stock that are cut to fit either a '03 or a '03-A3.

Probably the least expensive way to build a sniper is to find a '03-A3 that has already been drilled and tapped for a scope. The A4 scope mount was made by Redfield and there are plenty out there. Add a Lyman scope and you will have a genuine 03-A4 clone. You will still have something north of a grand in it, but that is much less than a original would cost you.

0321jarhead
02-20-2015, 2:11 PM
Here are the books....

http://www.amazon.com/Springfield-Illustrated-Documented-Development-Accessories/dp/0811708721/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1424473739&sr=1-2&keywords=springfield+1903

http://www.amazon.com/Model-Springfield-Rifle-Variations-Revised/dp/1882391306/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1424473834&sr=1-1&keywords=springfield+1903

pterrell
02-20-2015, 2:20 PM
Awesome good to know! That will probably be right up there at the top of my list too. Would an 03-A3 be something I wouldn't want to shoot? I'd hate to be shooting something that another collector would collect if that makes sense.

Bobby Ricigliano
02-20-2015, 2:25 PM
I'd say a "rebuild" 03A4 from JRA or Gibbs would do the trick, but rebuilt / reweld 03 variants seem to be particularly despised by the C&R crowd. I ended up with a 1903 and a 1903A3 as my "forever guns", both were probably rearsenaled but neither are drill rifle rewelds or other such things. I strongly prefer the 'C' style stock, but I guess that is personal preference. Both of mine have a bunch of neat cartouches on the stock.
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/image_zpsf0475959.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/image_zpsf0475959.jpg.html)
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/image_zps564128cd.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/image_zps564128cd.jpg.html)
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/image_zps4dbd4a45.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/image_zps4dbd4a45.jpg.html)

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/imagejpg12_zpsdb23d0bc.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/imagejpg12_zpsdb23d0bc.jpg.html)
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/imagejpg3_zps6ff90e05.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/imagejpg3_zps6ff90e05.jpg.html)
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/imagejpg5_zpsca089685.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/imagejpg5_zpsca089685.jpg.html)

highpower
02-20-2015, 2:26 PM
I have a few 03-A3's and I shoot them. The rear sight is light years better than the sight on a regular '03.

Bobby, your (very) early Remington '03 has a scant stock rather than a "C" stock.

Bobby Ricigliano
02-20-2015, 2:55 PM
I have a few 03-A3's and I shoot them. The rear sight is light years better than the sight on a regular '03.

Bobby, your (very) early Remington '03 has a scant stock rather than a "C" stock.

Yes, correct Sir. I picked it up recently in a trade and it is in wonderful condition. The seller disclosed that he had sanded & refinished it 20+ years ago. My untrained eyes would not have been able to tell. I never did a serial # lookup to see how early the 1903 was, but I figured it was beyond the range of the brittle, unsafe to shoot receivers.

0321jarhead
02-20-2015, 3:15 PM
This might help you guys on serial numbers of when your rifle/receiver was made.

http://oldguns.net/sn_php/milmods.htm

highpower
02-20-2015, 3:30 PM
I would say that your Remington should have a barrel date around 4-42 to 5-42 if it has the original barrel.

Remington made about 350,000 M1903 and 1903(M) rifles. The early ones made in 1941 were in nearly all respects identical to the 1919 Rock Island rifles as the equipment to manufacture them was purchased from the US government out of the armory at Rock Island.

As time went by, Remington made many suggestions to simplify and speed up manufacture of these rifles. By 1942 several shortcuts had been adopted, on your rifle is one of the first shortcuts that was approved, the elimination of the scallops in the rear sight base. You will see things like stamped trigger guards and stock bands on later production rifles as the supply of the earlier milled type was used up and the later type was introduced into the manufacturing process.

ALL Remington made 1903's and A3's are made from excellent high nickel steel stock and are safe to shoot modern ammo.

Bobby Ricigliano
02-20-2015, 3:36 PM
I would say that your Remington should have a barrel date around 4-42 to 5-42 if it has the original barrel.

Remington made about 350,000 M1903 and 1903(M) rifles. The early ones made in 1941 were in nearly all respects identical to the 1919 Rock Island rifles as the equipment to manufacture them was purchased from the US government out of the armory at Rock Island.

As time went by, Remington made many suggestions to simplify and speed up manufacture of these rifles. By 1942 several shortcuts had been adopted, on your rifle is one of the first shortcuts that was approved, the elimination of the scallops in the rear sight base. You will see things like stamped trigger guards and stock bands on later production rifles as the supply of the earlier milled type was used up and the later type was introduced into the manufacturing process.

ALL Remington made 1903's and A3's are made from excellent high nickel steel stock and are safe to shoot modern ammo.

Spot on observation, thank you. The date on the barrel is hard to see in the photo but it is definitely 1942:
http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p568/bobby_ricigliano/1903/imagejpg7_zps40bee606.jpg (http://s1156.photobucket.com/user/bobby_ricigliano/media/1903/imagejpg7_zps40bee606.jpg.html)

highpower
02-20-2015, 4:01 PM
Your rifle was made in May of 1942. Barrel dates will often precede the manufacture date by zero to three months, but in the early years of the war it was usually more like a month.

Interesting feature on your rifle is that I have heard that there were no original Remington rifles made with scant stocks, yet the stock on your rifle is NOT cut for the 03-A3 handguard retainer like all replacement stocks always are. I believe that your rifle has been through an arsenal rebuild as it has a stamped lower band and the finish is the same throughout. Remington used different finishes on different parts. so you will see things like blued bolts and upper and lower bands and butt plates, while the receiver and barrel will be parkerized.

My Remington 1903(M) serial number 3240205 was made in October of '42 and has a barrel date of 9-42.

mosinnagantm9130
02-20-2015, 4:56 PM
Good buy, don't mess with the stock.

Bobby Ricigliano
02-20-2015, 5:25 PM
Good buy, don't mess with the stock.

I am waiting for the Archangel 1903 stock to hit the market. A 1903 would look so much better with a tactical black finish. It will be nice to jettison the old wood once and for all.

pterrell
02-20-2015, 6:44 PM
I am waiting for the Archangel 1903 stock to hit the market. A 1903 would look so much better with a tactical black finish. It will be nice to jettison the old wood once and for all.
My SSgt at work actually asked me if they made an archangel stock with a rail for it... :facepalm:

Bobby Ricigliano
02-20-2015, 8:06 PM
My SSgt at work actually asked me if they made an archangel stock with a rail for it... :facepalm:

The proper military response to that question would be "No. Now get on down there in the front leaning rest position and beat your face!!"

Enfield47
02-20-2015, 8:36 PM
Congrats on your 1903 petrrell! I wouldn't mess with the original stock, if you want one that looks nicer, find a good reproduction and keep the original in a closet. I think Boyds made the stocks and also CMP used to have them for sale (maybe they still do).

Eljay
02-21-2015, 7:18 AM
re: the stock - it's amazing what a couple of new coats of tung oil will do (real tung oil, not Minwax or similar), or BLO. And then you can put on some suitable gun stock wax if you really want. My M1D came with a correct but really beat up stock and I was kind of appalled and it looks really nice now. Still has character (including those dings you get by banging rounds in the enbloc into it) but all the real gouges etc. don't really show up.

bigbossman
02-21-2015, 8:33 AM
I'm on the other side of the fence re: refinishing. I say go ahead, as long as you proceed gently and refinish it as USGI spec with Tung Oil, Boiled Linseed, etc.

This is not an un-messed with 1903 - it is a rebuild. You will not hurt the desirability or resale value by cleaning the dirt off and rubbing a new coat of oil in.

pterrell
02-21-2015, 11:30 AM
What would you use to clean the stock then? I don't want to take sandpaper to it unless I need to but I'd like to get rid of some of the grunge. I have tung or true oil that I used on my AK stick but can't remember which offhand.

highpower
02-21-2015, 1:46 PM
I use either Hoppes No9 if it is not too grungy or lacquer thinner if it's really nasty. Rub it in with 0000 steel wool and wipe it off with a rag periodically. It might take a few applications to get most of the dirt and oil out of the pores in the wood.

After you have cleaned it as much as you can, rub several coats of Boiled Linseed Oil into the stock.

That is really all that you can do without removing any material or damaging the wood.

USAF4564
02-21-2015, 2:11 PM
Classic, nice choice. Also just bought one recently.

bigbossman
02-21-2015, 5:23 PM
What would you use to clean the stock then? I don't want to take sandpaper to it unless I need to but I'd like to get rid of some of the grunge. I have tung or true oil that I used on my AK stick but can't remember which offhand.

What I'm about to say will no doubt raise calls for me to be drawn, quartered, and then burned at the stake, but................. I'd completely refinish it. :)

Why? Assuming it is not an original stock with nice original cartouches and such, it is just a replacement stock. Genuine USGI to be sure, but not a high dollar rare and desirable collectible.

Personally, were it mine and it were as rough as you intimate, I'd strip it, maybe smooth it out a bit with with fine steel wool, and then hand-rub re-finish it with BLO.That would get all the grunge off, make it look a lot nicer while still being "correct", and most importantly would not hurt the value one cent.

You paid $600. Now, after stripping it and then carefully refinishing it as USGI with BLO, you will still be able to sell it for as much if not more than you have into it.

TMB 1
02-21-2015, 6:18 PM
Nice looking 03! Mine is similar to yours ser#132xxxx except it has a 5-11 RIA barrel, no finger grove stock and Remington bolt. I was told it was probably rebuilt for WWII. Does yours have the Hatcher hole?

Enfield47
02-21-2015, 8:45 PM
What would you use to clean the stock then? I don't want to take sandpaper to it unless I need to but I'd like to get rid of some of the grunge. I have tung or true oil that I used on my AK stick but can't remember which offhand.

You can heat up some BLO in a metal can so it is just hotter than your body temp and using burlap rub the stock like you mean it. That will safely remove the grunge from the wood and condition it at the same time.