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SanSacto
06-02-2008, 9:51 PM
I am planning on purchasing a Saiga .308 this month, and would like to convert it to a traditional AK style. I have been doing a lot of research, have figured out exactly what I want, and exactly how much it will cost.....$372 plus shipping!!!

FCG for PG converted 308 - $80
Gas tube - $40
Bolt-on lower handguard retainer - $79
AK retaining plate - $15
Pistol grip nut and screw - 9
Nylon hole plugs - $1
Center punch - $10
1/8" carbide drill mill - $11
3/16" carbide drill mill - $14
1/4" carbide drill mill - $17
Laminate 4 piece stock set - $96

Not to mention the drill press and rotary tool that I need to purchase in order to get the job done. I really want to do this conversion but wow! This is an expensive hobby........

ar15barrels
06-02-2008, 9:54 PM
Just get an AR.

I had to say that because the Saiga guys always say it when people talk about the price of AR's...

JeffM
06-02-2008, 10:03 PM
Just get an AR.

I had to say that because the Saiga guys always say it when people talk about the price of AR's...

At least you qualified it so we know what you really think :D

How many people have built ARs?

How many people have built .308 AKs?

Exclusivity has a price.

69Mach1
06-02-2008, 10:03 PM
Why don't you go piece by piece and watch it slowly transform before your eyes.

ar15barrels
06-02-2008, 10:09 PM
How many people have built .308 AKs?

Exclusivity has a price.

And it's still quite a bit cheaper than a 308 AR.
You get what you pay for though.

JeffM
06-02-2008, 10:12 PM
And it's still quite a bit cheaper than a 308 AR.
You get what you pay for though.

Ouch! :chris:



AKs are investments in blood, sweat, and tears :D

SanSacto
06-02-2008, 10:35 PM
I guess when you compare the $415 rifle price + $372 conversion parts I guess it is still a good deal compared to a .308 AR.

MrTuffPaws
06-02-2008, 10:49 PM
Such as the ball bounces. You don't even want to know the total cost of the tools and parts I needed to convert my saiga. Still cheaper than an AR though:D

duenor
06-02-2008, 10:52 PM
send it to tromix or perhaps one of the ak experts here

SanSacto
06-02-2008, 10:58 PM
send it to tromix or perhaps one of the ak experts here

I did not even realize that was an option. I am going to do some searching about Tromix and if they will convert a California Saiga. Anybody know what my options would be to have it done instead of doing it myself?

brokestudent12
06-02-2008, 11:00 PM
I did not even realize that was an option. I am going to do some searching about Tromix and if they will convert a California Saiga. Anybody know what my options would be to have it done instead of doing it myself?

your option is to wait 12 months minimum, if you get on their waiting list today. they aren't taking orders right now and are backlogged 12 months or so.

vinny_land
06-02-2008, 11:11 PM
I am planning on purchasing a Saiga .308 this month, and would like to convert it to a traditional AK style. I have been doing a lot of research, have figured out exactly what I want, and exactly how much it will cost.....$372 plus shipping!!!

FCG for PG converted 308 - $80
Gas tube - $40
Bolt-on lower handguard retainer - $79
AK retaining plate - $15
Pistol grip nut and screw - 9
Nylon hole plugs - $1
Center punch - $10
1/8" carbide drill mill - $11
3/16" carbide drill mill - $14
1/4" carbide drill mill - $17
Laminate 4 piece stock set - $96

Not to mention the drill press and rotary tool that I need to purchase in order to get the job done. I really want to do this conversion but wow! This is an expensive hobby........

Arent FCG like $30-40 for a G2 trigger? Besides the trigger and the HG retainer, everything can be found cheaper if you shop around.

SanSacto
06-02-2008, 11:29 PM
Arent FCG like $30-40 for a G2 trigger? Besides the trigger and the HG retainer, everything can be found cheaper if you shop around.

The FCG I was looking at was from Dinzag Arms, specifically for a .308. I am not sure a standard G2 FCG would work. As for the HG retainer, this is a bolt-on retainer that does not require removing the FSB. It is also specifically made for the .308 and works with all standard AK lower handguards.

scotthmt
06-03-2008, 12:25 AM
Have you built an AK before? I figure a conversion can't be that hard if you've got some AK building under you r belt, that'd be horrible to mess up the reciever.

mike22ca
06-03-2008, 9:09 AM
I think Mississippi Auto Arms is handling the tromix upgrades now as well. Check them out. They're picky about some of the things that they will or wont do because we're from CA tho

SanSacto
06-03-2008, 10:32 AM
Have you built an AK before? I figure a conversion can't be that hard if you've got some AK building under you r belt, that'd be horrible to mess up the reciever.

No, I have no AK building or gunsmithing work under my belt at all. I also have not much experience with a drill or hammer also! But I have extensively researched about the Saiga conversion steps, and with the right tools I am confident I can get the job done. It would be a fun project also!

For the main tools I was thinking about a $47.99 5 speed bench drill press and a Black & Decker RTX 3 speed rotary tool for $29.99. What do you think about these tools?

http://www.amazon.com/5-Speed-Bench-Drill-Press/dp/B000FO2X6U/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1212517860&sr=8-4

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Decker-RTX-6-3-Speed-Accessories/dp/B0001GUDRI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1212517902&sr=1-1

NSR500
06-03-2008, 10:36 AM
You forgot to add a Bullet Guide to your shopping list if you plan to use AK mags at all.

ar15barrels
06-03-2008, 10:56 AM
No, I have no AK building or gunsmithing work under my belt at all. I also have not much experience with a drill or hammer also! But I have extensively researched about the Saiga conversion steps, and with the right tools I am confident I can get the job done. It would be a fun project also!

For the main tools I was thinking about a $47.99 5 speed bench drill press and a Black & Decker RTX 3 speed rotary tool for $29.99. What do you think about these tools?

This does not sound like a recipe for success.
At least it's not a lot of money if you end up throwing the whole thing away.

TurboAR
06-03-2008, 11:18 AM
Just got a PSL form Cold War Shooters. Great service. Price is right; Radlock installed by them, ammo is super cheap (762 x 54 r ). Lot less than .308, And the PSL does not need to be modified. Bought 3 extra 10 rd. mags for 19.99 each from AIM. I am happy :) Just need to shoot it :43:
Was going the Sagia route, went with the PSL instead. Good luck with your Sagia project. I may do a 7.62x39 Sagia conversion later this year.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=100395

SanSacto
06-03-2008, 12:48 PM
You forgot to add a Bullet Guide to your shopping list if you plan to use AK mags at all.

This does not sound like a recipe for success.
At least it's not a lot of money if you end up throwing the whole thing away.

I am doing a .308 conversion, so I will not be using AK mags. From what I understand the only 10 round .308 magazines for the Saiga are the factory mags and the Surefire mags, and these have a feed ramp built in. Becuse of this I do not need to install a bullet guide, which looks very difficult.

Why does it not sound like a recipe for success? Have you seen the newbie on YouTube convert his Saiga? He had no experience either. What exactly do you think I am going to mess up? You can scratch up the trigger plate all you want while romoving the trigger guard. I guess I will have to be the most careful not to scrathe the receiver while drilling the trigger and hammer pins out.

scotthmt
06-03-2008, 12:54 PM
I'd be careful with the conversion, It would be sad to mess up the reciever. Start by drilling small holes and slowly move up to the right size. I'd recomend a punch to dimple the dead center of where to drill. Just be careful cuz screwing up the receiver would be very sad.

SanSacto
06-03-2008, 1:11 PM
I'd be careful with the conversion, It would be sad to mess up the reciever. Start by drilling small holes and slowly move up to the right size. I'd recomend a punch to dimple the dead center of where to drill. Just be careful cuz screwing up the receiver would be very sad.

Yes, I plan on taking my time and triple checking everything. Instead of using a hand drill I am going to get a bench drill press. I hope this will help me be more precise. Yes I was going to use a center punch. Starting by drilling smaller holes is a good tip I will put to use, thanks. I guess start with a 1/8" or 3/16" instead of a 1/4" bit for the trigger and hammer pins?

NSR500
06-03-2008, 1:15 PM
I am doing a .308 conversion, so I will not be using AK mags. From what I understand the only 10 round .308 magazines for the Saiga are the factory mags and the Surefire mags, and these have a feed ramp built in. Becuse of this I do not need to install a bullet guide, which looks very difficult.

Why does it not sound like a recipe for success? Have you seen the newbie on YouTube convert his Saiga? He had no experience either. What exactly do you think I am going to mess up? You can scratch up the trigger plate all you want while romoving the trigger guard. I guess I will have to be the most careful not to scrathe the receiver while drilling the trigger and hammer pins out.


Chalk it up to selective reading... I somehow figured it was a 7.62x39. Anyways, Good Luck on the project! The .308 conversion does not look as hard as the 30.06 conversion.

JSpicoli
06-03-2008, 1:16 PM
it would be awesome if you did a write up on your conversion with all the parts/tools you use and documenting your steps!

ar15barrels
06-03-2008, 1:18 PM
AKs are investments in blood, sweat, and tears :D

I always preferred my guns to not have any blood on them.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u115/Ratduster77/S5002378.jpg

PIRATE14
06-03-2008, 1:18 PM
Did you buy two 308 SAIGAs......;)

SanSacto
06-03-2008, 1:20 PM
it would be awesome if you did a write up on your conversion with all the parts/tools you use and documenting your steps!

Could be possible, I'll keep that in mind. For now I am still in the planning stage. I want to know as much as possible about what I'm doing. I have only recently put together my first OLL, and I put a bullet button on my Vector AK. That is as much work as I have done on firearms.

JeffM
06-03-2008, 1:29 PM
As a wise man once said, if you don't know how to use a tool properly, you will not know if you're using it improperly.

If you don't have any experience with metal work at the very least you should not attempt it alone.

That said, anything can be fixed if you're willing to send it off and pay the price of a competent smith.

I always preferred my guns to not have any blood on them.

[img]

It adds character! Most of the permanent pitting ends up being on my knuckles anyway ;)

SanSacto
06-03-2008, 1:56 PM
As a wise man once said, if you don't know how to use a tool properly, you will not know if you're using it improperly.

If you don't have any experience with metal work at the very least you should not attempt it alone.

That said, anything can be fixed if you're willing to send it off and pay the price of a competent smith.

It adds character! Most of the permanent pitting ends up being on my knuckles anyway ;)

Yeah, I understand that. But where do you want me to start? Or can direct me to someone who will do the conversion I want? I don't have the answer to either of those questions. I am going to be using a bench drill press so it will be precise, not a hand drill. I understand as much of what it takes to remove rivets and the functions of the AK without doing it hands-on. All that I do with the metal is drill and remove the trigger and hammer pins, file and remove the trigger guard pins, drill through the trigger guard spot weld, and drill a hole for the new front of the trigger guard. 4 pins, 1 spot weld, 1 new hole.

JeffM
06-03-2008, 2:00 PM
It's harder than it sounds.



But go for it. We all had to start somewhere.

SanSacto
06-03-2008, 2:02 PM
It's harder than it sounds.

But go for it. We all had to start somewhere.

I am sure it is harder than it sounds, I am not underestimating this conversion, this is why I am spending so much time researching and getting your feedback. I am not scared to do this, you are right. We all have to start somewhere.

ar15barrels
06-03-2008, 2:06 PM
I am going to be using a bench drill press so it will be precise

That's your first mistake.
A bench drill press is NOT precise.
It is a step better than a hand drill though.

thedrickel
06-03-2008, 2:06 PM
Saiga conversions aren't cheap, generally, especially the S-223 conversion if you want AR mags, bullet guide, G2 FCG, new stock & grip . . . galil/AR mag adapters alone are going for over 150 on gunbroker now. :eek:

JeffM
06-03-2008, 2:18 PM
Saiga conversions aren't cheap, generally, especially the S-223 conversion if you want AR mags, bullet guide, G2 FCG, new stock & grip . . . galil/AR mag adapters alone are going for over 150 on gunbroker now. :eek:

Thanks for the reminder :(

I thought it was silly when I considered buying one of the adapters before I got my S223.

It'll still be worth it though (at least that's what I still tell myself :D).

viras
06-03-2008, 2:55 PM
I assume you've already been here?

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/

And here?:

http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm

That Tromix guy does good work, but he's got a year long waiting list... :(

vet
06-03-2008, 8:29 PM
Yes, I plan on taking my time and triple checking everything. Instead of using a hand drill I am going to get a bench drill press. I hope this will help me be more precise. Yes I was going to use a center punch. Starting by drilling smaller holes is a good tip I will put to use, thanks. I guess start with a 1/8" or 3/16" instead of a 1/4" bit for the trigger and hammer pins?

Bah! It's easy! Don't let these guys scare ya ;)
If you haven't been to saiga12.com yet, go there. everything you need to know.
I just finished my conversion on my x39. I've never worked on a gun before, and it only took a couple hours. Like you said, if the guy on youtube can do it....
You don't need the drillpress or the dremmel. Just get yourself a decent variable speed hand drill, a center punch, and a set of cobalt bits.

You have it exactly right...center punch the rivet head, and starting with 1/8" bit, work your way up to 1/4". Use some kinda cutting oil to keep from smoking your bits.

Instead of using a dremmel to cut a square hole for the handle, drill a round hole, and install one of these.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/stick_/grip-nut.jpg

I made this one,
its pretty much idiot proof..:)

Once your finished, you will look back and say, that's it!? what was all the fuss about!
hope that helps,
vet

69Mach1
06-03-2008, 8:45 PM
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/stick_/grip-nut.jpg
That my friend is genius. Good work.

vet
06-03-2008, 9:09 PM
Thanks man, but I cant take credit for the idea. Someone on saiga12 came up with it. I just borrowed their idea.

SanSacto
06-04-2008, 2:06 PM
Bah! It's easy! Don't let these guys scare ya ;)
If you haven't been to saiga12.com yet, go there. everything you need to know.
I just finished my conversion on my x39. I've never worked on a gun before, and it only took a couple hours. Like you said, if the guy on youtube can do it....
You don't need the drillpress or the dremmel. Just get yourself a decent variable speed hand drill, a center punch, and a set of cobalt bits.

You have it exactly right...center punch the rivet head, and starting with 1/8" bit, work your way up to 1/4". Use some kinda cutting oil to keep from smoking your bits.

Instead of using a dremmel to cut a square hole for the handle, drill a round hole, and install one of these.

[IMG]

I made this one,
its pretty much idiot proof..:)

Once your finished, you will look back and say, that's it!? what was all the fuss about!
hope that helps,
vet

Thanks, that's the boost of motivation I was looking for. Like the above post said, I think a bench drill press would be a step better than the hand drill. I don't have either so I would have to buy one anyway.

Mike-4
06-04-2008, 5:14 PM
That my friend is genius. Good work.

Ok. What is this and where do you get them?

regards,

vet
06-04-2008, 7:59 PM
Ok. What is this and where do you get them?

regards,

Its a pistol grip nut.

The biggest pain of doing a conversion is making the square pistol grip nut hole. The pistol grip nuts that are available now are all square, and you have to either dremmel or file out a square hole. It's a pain.

With this type, you just drill a hole... and your done. :)

I don't know where you could buy one. As I said, I made this one.

I might be able to make some more if there are enough people interested.

vet

ar15barrels
06-04-2008, 8:52 PM
The biggest pain of doing a conversion is making the square pistol grip nut hole.

Square holes are not that hard to make.
All you need to do is grind a simple broach to square out the corners of a hole you drill.
Here is a hole that I squared out two corners on just to illustrate this.
It only took about 5 minutes in the mill.

http://ar15barrels.com/tech/square-hole.jpg

Redchevyman
06-04-2008, 9:06 PM
I have G2 triggers, pistol grip T-nuts with screws and Black AK furniture available on my web site. Everything I sell is made in the USA.
http://www.usparts.redchevy.com/index.html

Addax
06-04-2008, 9:18 PM
Wow, well, that says it all folks, I am going to do my own conversion.

I have the shop, the tools and all of the 922r parts I need.

Very cool info. thank you for sharing.

This will save allot of $$ for many of us.

In another thread I recommended going to a experienced conversion smith, but after reviewing this information and seeing that cool (genius is a very good way to put it) pistol grip nut, I can do this in my shop in no time.

I just need to know for sure if feed ramps/ bullet guides need to be installed on the .223 Saiga's, and / or does that apply for all of them?

Bah! It's easy! Don't let these guys scare ya ;)
If you haven't been to saiga12.com yet, go there. everything you need to know.
I just finished my conversion on my x39. I've never worked on a gun before, and it only took a couple hours. Like you said, if the guy on youtube can do it....
You don't need the drillpress or the dremmel. Just get yourself a decent variable speed hand drill, a center punch, and a set of cobalt bits.

You have it exactly right...center punch the rivet head, and starting with 1/8" bit, work your way up to 1/4". Use some kinda cutting oil to keep from smoking your bits.

Instead of using a dremmel to cut a square hole for the handle, drill a round hole, and install one of these.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b174/stick_/grip-nut.jpg

I made this one,
its pretty much idiot proof..:)

Once your finished, you will look back and say, that's it!? what was all the fuss about!
hope that helps,
vet

Addax
06-04-2008, 9:22 PM
Shameless plug (Mod's I hop you do not mind): We will be carrying virtually every type of AK part you can imagine (over 250 parts) from US MFG'd parts inc. 922r, to East European and some Russian parts as well.

Stay tuned!:D

SanSacto
06-04-2008, 9:29 PM
Wow, well, that says it all folks, I am going to do my own conversion.

I have the shop, the tools and all of the 922r parts I need.

Very cool info. thank you for sharing.

This will save allot of $$ for many of us.

In another thread I recommended going to a experienced conversion smith, but after reviewing this information and seeing that cool (genius is a very good way to put it) pistol grip nut, I can do this in my shop in no time.

I just need to know for sure if feed ramps/ bullet guides need to be installed on the .223 Saiga's, and / or does that apply for all of them?

Great, go for it. I am a rookie at this and am still going to do it, I am not scared. I'm going to take my time and be careful. What could be the worst that can happen? Scratch the receiver or worse?

As I understand it you only need a bullet guide/feed ramp if you are using AK mags.

Do all Saigas need to have the new trigger hole drilled out?

69Mach1
06-04-2008, 10:00 PM
When you go about converting a Saiga to a regular pistol grip AK configuration, you have to drill out the rivets that hold a special plate under the receiver that has the cut outs for the Saiga factory fire control group. Once it's removed, the regular AK cut outs in the receiver are there for the normal AK trigger. On the 7.62X39 Saigas, in both 16in and 20in, there is no pistol grip nut cut out. However, both the .223 16in and 20in rifles already have the pistol grip nut cut out. I have confirmed this on all 4 of my Saigas.

SanSacto
06-04-2008, 10:05 PM
When you go about converting a Saiga to a regular pistol grip AK configuration, you have to drill out the rivets that hold a special plate under the receiver that has the cut outs for the Saiga factory fire control group. Once it's removed, the regular AK cut outs in the receiver are there for the normal AK trigger. On the 7.62X39 Saigas, in both 16in and 20in, there is no pistol grip nut cut out. However, both the .223 16in and 20in rifles already have the pistol grip nut cut out. I have confirmed this on all 4 of my Saigas.

Okay, so all calibers will have the regular AK cutouts under the trigger plate? You confirmed the situation on the pistol grip holes for the 7.62x39 and .223, but what about pistol grip hole for the .308? That's what I am going to convert.

69Mach1
06-04-2008, 10:08 PM
Okay, so all calibers will have the regular AK cutouts under the trigger plate? You confirmed the situation on the pistol grip holes for the 7.62x39 and .223, but what about pistol grip hole for the .308? That's what I am going to convert.

Sorry man, you're gonna have to wait until I buy a .308 Saiga to do that. :D
And I will.

Yes, for my 7.62 and .223 Saiga's, the AK cut outs are under that plate.

Addax
06-04-2008, 10:23 PM
Got it.

I have a nice brand new Drill / Mill for this type of work, plus all the new rivets I need.:D

Thanks for the tip bro!

When you go about converting a Saiga to a regular pistol grip AK configuration, you have to drill out the rivets that hold a special plate under the receiver that has the cut outs for the Saiga factory fire control group. Once it's removed, the regular AK cut outs in the receiver are there for the normal AK trigger. On the 7.62X39 Saigas, in both 16in and 20in, there is no pistol grip nut cut out. However, both the .223 16in and 20in rifles already have the pistol grip nut cut out. I have confirmed this on all 4 of my Saigas.

ar15barrels
06-04-2008, 10:41 PM
I have a nice brand new Drill / Mill for this type of work

But do you know how to use it? ;)

SanSacto
06-04-2008, 10:49 PM
But do you know how to use it? ;)

You are making it sound like we are trying to fix the Apollo 13! I'm sure you have tons of experience and advice, but man......is it really that hard to drill out a few pins? I am not underestimating this conversion but I do not think its impossible for a newbie to do it right.

ar15barrels
06-04-2008, 10:53 PM
You are making it sound like we are trying to fix the Apollo 13!

I'm just giving him a hard time and he knows it.
Lots of people go and buy tools thinking that things are easy, only to learn a lot about metalworking in general.
I applaud you guys for figuring out how to do it yourself.
I did that years ago so I get to sit back and smile as you go through the learning process.

I recommend practicing on some scrap before you jump into actual guns.
I did a lot of metalwork before I ever worked on guns.

The main thing you will find out about in guns is that many parts are hard.
You won't be able to drill or machine these parts like you expect.
Plan to get some carbide tools and plan to break some while figuring it out.

I ended up with a surface grinder just to deal with hard-to-machine things.

SanSacto
06-04-2008, 10:58 PM
I'm just giving him a hard time and he knows it.
Lots of people go and buy tools thinking that things are easy, only to learn a lot about metalworking in general.
I applaud you guys for figuring out how to do it yourself.
I did that years ago so I get to sit back and smile as you go through the learning process.

I recommend practicing on some scrap before you jump into actual guns.
I did a lot of metalwork before I ever worked on guns.

The main thing you will find out about in guns is that many parts are hard.
You won't be able to drill or machine these parts like you expect.
Plan to get some carbide tools and plan to break some while figuring it out.

I ended up with a surface grinder just to deal with hard-to-machine things.

I do greatly appreciate the advice, I need as much as I can get. I know it's not going to be like cutting through warm butter. I will mess around with some scrap metal before to practice. I am sure when I do get around to the conversion I will be on here asking guys like you how to fix the trouble I got myself in! This is a mission I am out to try though!

Addax
06-04-2008, 10:58 PM
No, I just bought it so it would look pretty in my shop..:p

There is allot about me many people do not know (yet), but they will soon...:43:

I learned how to how to weld, fabricate metal parts, machine parts, use a mill, lathe etc. and I did this type of work for my father's shop for over 10 years before I decided to become a white collar executive.

I learned allot from my father and father-n-law.

My father is a certified special metals welder, a machinist, and a heavy equipment specialist.

My father-n-law owns a huge machine shop in Iraq with 20 different types of mills, lathes etc. that can do work on large equipment engine blocks, cranks, cams etc., and he does allot of work over there for the US Govt.

I believe I have my bases covered on how to use a Drill / Mill..:D

But do you know how to use it? ;)

Addax
06-04-2008, 11:03 PM
I'm just giving him a hard time and he knows it.
Lots of people go and buy tools thinking that things are easy, only to learn a lot about metalworking in general.
I applaud you guys for figuring out how to do it yourself.
I did that years ago so I get to sit back and smile as you go through the learning process.

I recommend practicing on some scrap before you jump into actual guns.
I did a lot of metalwork before I ever worked on guns.

The main thing you will find out about in guns is that many parts are hard.
You won't be able to drill or machine these parts like you expect.
Plan to get some carbide tools and plan to break some while figuring it out.

I ended up with a surface grinder just to deal with hard-to-machine things.

Yeah I know you are ribbing me, no worries..:D

Your advise on practicing is the best thing especially for those who have never worked with metals before.:iagree:

vandal
06-05-2008, 8:44 AM
That's a load of bull. Nothing gets the adrenaline going like drilling into your shiny new gun knowing only what you've pieced together from the Internet. And that rush costs a lot less than driving to Vegas these days.

Your advise on practicing is the best thing especially for those who have never worked with metals before.

SanSacto
06-05-2008, 8:48 AM
That's a load of bull. Nothing gets the adrenaline going like drilling into your shiny new gun knowing only what you've pieced together from the Internet. And that rush costs a lot less than driving to Vegas these days.

Sounds like fun, I can't wait. Why would you drive to Vegas?

ar15barrels
06-05-2008, 8:52 AM
Why would you drive to Vegas?

Adreneline rush.

SanSacto
06-05-2008, 8:54 AM
Sounds like fun, I can't wait. Why would you drive to Vegas?

I thought you might be talking about something other than the gambling, booze, and women.......but that's the only thing Vegas is good for.