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Spectre1995
02-16-2015, 7:21 AM
I have a Russian SKS that I want to refinish to look more like what it did originally. When I stripped the cosmoline after I brought it home, there was basically no wood finish, which I found strange. I stripped the remaining finish off of it and applied a coat of Boiled Linseed Oil. I like how it turned out, but I'm not completely satisfied.

What I want to do is finish this to have more of a "Russian Red" look. I've been told Rit dye is the way to go, but I figured I'd ask around here anyways to see if anyone has had success any other ways.

I also want to preserve or re-stamp the markings on the wood. The markings are very faint and almost nonexistent, so I want to deepen those to make them more clearly visible.

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q606/calleja62/IMG_20150209_084419124_zps4xeov7zs.jpg

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q606/calleja62/IMG_20150209_084346786_HDR_zps55bwzvnj.jpg

Armistice
02-16-2015, 7:31 AM
Unless you have the exact number/ letter stamps as the Soviets did, you won't be able to restamp them. I think you're just SOL in that department. I'd just try to stay off them when you sand the stock

As for shellac, I've heard to find the flake stuff. I don't know how to mix or apply it, but others do

NOTABIKER
02-16-2015, 8:49 AM
It is very hard to duplicate that look that comes from sitting in storage for 60 years covered in shellac and cosmo. The look we see on them fresh out of the box is not the way they looked 60 plus years ago. I did get one last year that had such a nice finish on it that i was able to wipe the cosmo off with wd 40 and i was done. Amber shellac is pretty good but not perfect.

Spectre1995
02-16-2015, 9:02 AM
I found a couple videos on a finish I like very much. I'm not going to do the high gloss like he did, but I want to try to duplicate how his turned out (minus the gloss).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9rL-ZtsVgM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vzR0Q_o4l8

Caribouriver
02-16-2015, 9:14 AM
You can spot test some Min-Wax "red mahogany" on your stock (maybe inside the hand-guard) to see if the color is close to what you want. Alternatively,or in conjunction with, you can see what the color of "garnet" shellac flakes does to your stock color. Be sure to use "dewaxed" shellac flakes. You dissolve them in alcohol according to the "cut" you want. The "cut" is the weight of shellac per volume of denatured alcohol. A "one pound cut" is one pound of shellac flakes dissolved in one gallon of denatured alcohol. There are 2 pound cuts, three pound cuts etc. I tried refinishing a mosin stock with shellac and had trouble applying the shellac. It dries so darn fast that I could not avoid leaving brush marks. I could not apply it fast enough to leave a "wet edge". I think spraying, dipping (as I believe the Russians did) or adding a drying retardant to the shellac would have worked. I did not try any of those techniques. I ended up applying the red mahogany stain and finished with Tru-Oil, rubbing out the last coat of Tru-Oil with 000 steel wool with linseed oil as a lubricant until I cut the sheen down to what I thought the shellac would have been. Not original but acceptable to me.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/dewaxed-garnet-shellac1lb.aspx

TRAP55
02-16-2015, 9:22 AM
The only way to get the stock to take the RIT stain is to strip and sand it to bare wood. That includes the cosmo soaked and/or stained wood. Then say goodbye to the stamps, and anything left to collector value.
The stock's original Russian root beer, is way easier to get than Russian red. The shellac finish can be duplicated with several coats of hand rubbed high gloss poly, and it's a lot more durable.

Spectre1995
02-16-2015, 9:25 AM
The stock is already repaired and re-stained anyways, so collector's value is pretty much diminished for the wood. I'm not too worried about it, I just want my rifle to look good.

Far as the stamps go, they're basically gone anyways. I know what they look like and can possibly have them re-done in the future.

hifiguns
02-16-2015, 11:32 AM
Minwax sedona red stain and polyurethane finish for a "Russian Red" look. Easy to apply and durable.

NOTABIKER
02-16-2015, 3:18 PM
plenty of buyers that just want a nice looking old C&R, I sold a lot of them at a better price than what a collector would pay for one original. A pretty wood finish is nicer to look at :rolleyes:

TMB 1
02-16-2015, 4:41 PM
You can spot test some Min-Wax "red mahogany" on your stock (maybe inside the hand-guard) to see if the color is close to what you want. Alternatively,or in conjunction with, you can see what the color of "garnet" shellac flakes does to your stock color. Be sure to use "dewaxed" shellac flakes. You dissolve them in alcohol according to the "cut" you want. The "cut" is the weight of shellac per volume of denatured alcohol. A "one pound cut" is one pound of shellac flakes dissolved in one gallon of denatured alcohol. There are 2 pound cuts, three pound cuts etc. I tried refinishing a mosin stock with shellac and had trouble applying the shellac. It dries so darn fast that I could not avoid leaving brush marks. I could not apply it fast enough to leave a "wet edge". I think spraying, dipping (as I believe the Russians did) or adding a drying retardant to the shellac would have worked. I did not try any of those techniques. I ended up applying the red mahogany stain and finished with Tru-Oil, rubbing out the last coat of Tru-Oil with 000 steel wool with linseed oil as a lubricant until I cut the sheen down to what I thought the shellac would have been. Not original but acceptable to me.

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/dewaxed-garnet-shellac1lb.aspx

Minwax red mahogany looks pretty good. I used it on my scratch up M44 after I stripped the scratched up shellac off.

Bobby Ricigliano
02-18-2015, 4:46 AM
The only way to get the stock to take the RIT stain is to strip and sand it to bare wood. That includes the cosmo soaked and/or stained wood. Then say goodbye to the stamps, and anything left to collector value.
The stock's original Russian root beer, is way easier to get than Russian red. The shellac finish can be duplicated with several coats of hand rubbed high gloss poly, and it's a lot more durable.

Listen to this guy. He knows his stuff!

Spectre1995
02-18-2015, 6:52 AM
So i managed to strip it down almost fully so far. It needs some more work, but it's getting there. I'm in no rush so I'm taking my time to make sure it looks nice this time

0321jarhead
02-18-2015, 11:53 AM
This should be interesting after that you stated that you have applied boiled linseed oil. I would think that whatever finish that you apply will make it more on the dark side and not the russian red like color. What are you using to strip it down?

BTW, I have found what works best for me on those SKS rifles.
"Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac...Color used is Amber".

Spectre1995
02-18-2015, 12:01 PM
I've used Citristrip and Oven Cleaner to strip it down. As of now the RIT is on and looks really good! I even managed to save the markings, somewhat. I'm just waiting on it to dry.

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q606/calleja62/0218151156-00_zpscm9wqpoe.jpg

http://i1166.photobucket.com/albums/q606/calleja62/0218151156-02_zps7woesalx.jpg

hellayella
02-18-2015, 12:15 PM
go to shellac.net and get their garnet shellac which is the most authentic..thin with denatured alcohol and apply in super thin coast..I like to 0000 steel wool between coats...

0321jarhead
02-18-2015, 12:16 PM
FYI, oven cleaner will work. It will also make the wood brittle. Be sure to rinse it really good with hot water. If you can, buy some http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/stock-work-finishing/stock-finish-strippers/old-fashioned-whiting-prod1133.aspx if you need to get some oil stains out of the wood.

Another good item if not better than the citrus to remove the finish is "Jasco varnish & Stain remover". After you had then finished rinse well and let dry for at least 24hrs. Then use 0000 steel wool or bronze to remove the very small spurs that raise up on the wood as it dries. Then with an air compressor, blow off the fine 0000 particles.

Spectre1995
02-18-2015, 12:20 PM
What I did after I stripped it was put it in hot water and used Dawn to get the rest of the cosmoline out. That got most, if not all of the cosmoline stains.

0321jarhead
02-18-2015, 12:25 PM
Remove the butt plate and sling thingy so the screws don't rust. That could also rot the wood over time where the screws are in, then hang the stock and hand guard to dry out but not in the sun.

Spectre1995
02-21-2015, 10:10 AM
I'm not going to bother posting how it turned out, because I decided I'm going to do it over. I just didn't like how the color turned out, so I'm trying something different.

I have two Minwax finishes here; Red Oak and Red Mahogany. I've also been looking at Sedona Red. Between the three, which would be most accurate in terms of the original color for the era?

I see a few of you recommended Red Mahogany already, would you be able to post pictures of how it turned out?

TRAP55
02-22-2015, 9:46 AM
Listen to this guy. He knows his stuff!
I tried to warn him.:facepalm:
Spectre, you're at a point now, that anything short of a acetone immersion bath, is going to leave you with a funky colored stock, most likely close to a pink color.
Citristrip is good stuff, but it's not going to work on this. Oven cleaner is the nightmare of C&R collectors, and anyone who appreciates wood stocks. The damage it does to the wood is irreversible. It's like using pool acid to clean fingerprints off a blued Colt Python.
Here's how you can salvage this, and get the original Russian root beer color back.
Get some Jasco like jarhead said, I use the spray can stuff. Hose it, let it set and do it's job, and clean it off. It's not going to pull "all" the RIT out of the grain, so don't panic.
Soak a rag in lacquer thinner, and wash/scrub the stock clean of Jasco. Give the end grain special attention. That would be the finger groove, wrist area, and muzzle end of the stock. Let it dry good.
Every thing you do to the stock, do to the handguard at the same time! Masking tape over the metal when sanding, staining, and finishing.
Now you'll have a pink stock with with raised grain "hairs". Lightly sand these off with some 320 grit wet or dry paper. The wrist and especially the finger grooves are problem areas.
The groove part needs to be sanded enough to lighten the wood to match the rest of the stock. Stay off the edges of it, or you'll end up with a light colored ring around the groove. I use a rubber sanding block to keep the edges clean. Same thing on the stock stamps, more on those later.
If you have compressed air blow it off, if you don't, wipe it down good with a cotton rag.
MinWax Red Mahogany, well shaken and stirred.
Soak a cotton rag in it, and rub it into the wood, don't wipe it on, with exception to the end grain spots. Wipe on, wipe off there. Don't panic if it has splotches, this works for you when it's done, it duplicates the shellac finish. Now you have raised hairs again, so "buff" them off with 0000 steel wool. Blow or wipe it off. No air?, use a stiff bristle toothbrush with a soft cotton rag between the wood and brush.
MinWax Sanding and Stain sealer.
"Light" smooth coat rubbed into the wood. Smoother you leave it to dry, less work and better results later. Let it dry. What it looks now is pretty much what the end result will be. Light buff with the wool, wipe down, repeat light coat of sealer, light buff and wipe down.
Stock stamps.
Leave em be, or freshen them up, your choice, restored looks much better and easy enough to do. Use a pointed instrument with the tip no wider than the font stamp. Clean the sealer out of the font, being careful going across the grain so you don't chip out the edges. Magnifier and good direct lighting is a major plus doing this. I use nails, with the tips cold hammered, then ground and filed to shape, to freshen the stamps. be careful to make the depth of the lines consistent.
High Gloss Polyurethane, spray can.
Warm stock, and a warmed well shaken can, get the best results. Light even coat. When thoroughly dry, rub smooth with 0000 steel wool, and wipe it down. Repeat. Rub in a coat of Johnsons Paste Wax, and let it dry. Buff it off with a terry cloth rag.
Now your stock stamps are full of poly and wax. Stamps were applied after the finish. Carefully scrape them clean again.
Questions or need help, PM me, be glad to help.

0321jarhead
02-22-2015, 1:27 PM
"You can lead a horse to water but, you can't make him drink it." :iagree:

Spectre1995
02-22-2015, 1:35 PM
Yeah, I know. I screwed it up. Here's now hoping I can fix it

TRAP55
02-22-2015, 2:06 PM
If you don't screw up something, how will you ever learn to fix it? I've never screwed up anything, but I sure learned to fix a whole lot of other things.:D

Spectre1995
02-22-2015, 2:10 PM
Okay, so I know for sure my local hardware store has Jasco and Lacquer thinner. I'll pick some up tomorrow morning and try what you said.

TRAP55
02-22-2015, 2:45 PM
Follow those instructions, PM me if there's something you don't understand, or aren't sure of.
"IF" it doesn't turn out like I said it will, box it up, send it to me, and I'll fix it for return shipping cost. How's that for being confident you can do it?;)
Take pics as you do it!
Enfield47 never repaired or refinished a stock before. It took about 200 PM's to walk him through it, but the results were pretty awesome. Your SKS stock isn't anywhere near the mess his P-14 stock was.
If you notice in the YouTube videos, and other "how to" internet finds, the guys that get the pretty Russian red, are starting with new wood, or heavily stripped and sanded stocks.
The one I did for Bobby, was cosmo soaked under the re-finish someone else did. On top of that, it had something else that I think was beeswax impregnated in the wood. Nothing I could do to get it out, without being aggressive enough to trash the originality of the stock.
I didn't want to get shot with it, so I couldn't return it to him in Hot Pink!:D
One more strip with lacquer thinner, stained with the red mahogany, and I had a good Russian rootbeer. Not my best work, but he "said" he was happy with it.:rolleyes:

Spectre1995
02-22-2015, 2:48 PM
Well it's comforting to hear that this doesn't look *as* bad. When I stripped it down, hopeful the dye had come off with it, I was disappointed (and somewhat embarassed) to see my stock was pink... I don't think my SKS will ever forgive me for that

I'll go ahead and PM you, I'm going to definitely need a walkthrough with doing this

Enfield47
02-22-2015, 8:12 PM
Spectre1995, Trap is very helpful and explainatory with walking you through the process. His knowledge of how to make repairs and work around problems you will encounter in immeasurable. If anyone can help you, he can.

After his last encounter with paint stripper on Will55's M1917 parade rifles, I can't wait for the stories if he gets to go through that again. :D

TRAP55
02-23-2015, 10:29 AM
Man, that Satan Snot was some nasty stuff, it's still sitting on the shelf, I'm waiting for it to burn through the can!:D

johnthomas
02-23-2015, 11:17 AM
Here you go, this thread is just what you need. When I prepare the stock I never use sand paper, always 0000 steel wool or bronze wool.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=321453

Garand1911
02-23-2015, 11:07 PM
go to shellac.net and get their garnet shellac which is the most authentic..thin with denatured alcohol and apply in super thin coast..I like to 0000 steel wool between coats...


^^^ This +100


.....if shellac is the original coating.





I really hate seeing modern stain on guns that originally were garnet shellac.