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View Full Version : To Hakim or AG42 or no (Pics Added)


1970gmc
02-14-2015, 10:37 PM
I've been on the hunt for a nice Garand for under a grand for a while and in my searching I stumbled across both a pretty decent looking AG42 and a nice Hakim. They were selling the 42 for $800 and the Hakim for $600. The Hakim had been refinished with something very glossy and incorrect. If I were to buy it I would refinish is again but with a more appropriate BLO. The bores on both rifles seemed to be in good shape. First question is are the prices in line in your opinions? Second question is should I forgo my garand search and strike on one of these rifles while I have the chance?

Capybara
02-15-2015, 5:31 AM
To me, $600.00 for a Bubba'd rifle seems like a lot. if the 42 is in better shape/original, I would go for that. As far as Garands, they are not drying up too soon. But what about 8mm? Ammo is getting hard to find and even reloading it, those .323 bullets and large powder capacity make it a fairly expensive round to reload. .30-06 is cheaper and easier to find. I don't have a 42 or Hakim, but I have heard they can be finicky about ammo, gas system, they are supposed to be a PITA to disassemble and clean, but then again, the Garand is a bit of a PITA to disassemble and clean too. Realistically, you should buy the 42 and a Garand, you will sooner or later but if the 42 looks good and is available, much more rare to find than the Garands.

Armistice
02-15-2015, 6:36 AM
I have both

Garands are still pretty available. The AG42 is a little harder to find, but they are still out there (and if you don't care if it's Swedish made, the Egyptians had the Hakim which is the same... Swede tooling with Egyptian machinists)

Also, the AG42 takes 6.5x55 Swede, not 8mm, Capy ;) (EDIT #3- I realize you were prob talking about the Hakim using 8mm :p ) I've read that the AG42 is ammo sensitive due to no gas adjustment, but PPU works well, whereas the Hakim DOES have a gas adjustment

However, a Garand was one of my grail rifles, so I prob would've bought it before the AG42

For what it's worth, my minty Ljungman was $950, but a refinished stock for $800 seems a little high to me. Actually, I'm sure the cops are still looking for me because I got super lucky on what I paid for mine, so maybe $800 isn't all that bad

EDIT- Even thought the Ljungman is Swede, and the Swedes had super good stuff, the Hakim MIGHT be a better buy due to the gas adjustment allowing you to dial in the system for whatever ammo you're using, rather than dealing with the Ljungman being picky about ammo/ adjusting your reloads

I know I didn't really answer your question, but hopefully got your noggin turning ;)

Mustang
02-15-2015, 7:03 AM
I have multiple examples of all three. All of mine are fairly well made rifles, of similar accuracy.

$600 for a refinished Hakim is on the high end, but they are nice rifles. They also have a gas adjustment screw, so they are more tolerant of different ammo types.

$800 for a Ljungman seems in line. As has been mentioned, they shoot 6.5 x 55 ammo and do not have a gas adjustment system. My Ljungmans are very hard on the brass when using most commercial loads. The extraction/ejection sequence is very brisk, almost violent. I have torn the rims on Prvi and Hornady loads and it is not uncommon to find the fired cases thrown 30 or 40 feet at the 2 o'clock position.

Many Ljungman shooters (and the original Swedish Ljungman manual) recommend lubing the brass before firing it. It helps with the extraction.

Most commercial 6.5 x 55 ammo seems to be loaded with fairly slow burning powder. I've tamed the extraction/ejection sequence on my Ljungmans by reloading with medium burning powders.

As time goes on, finding replacement parts for both the Hakim and Ljungman and Ljungman is likely to be problematic.

The Garand can still be purchased from the CMP for prices similar to the Ljungman. There are numerous Garand 'smiths and parts are plentiful. Garand safe ammo is plentiful and you can also buy an adjustable gas plug for the Garand, which allows you to shoot almost any 30.06 ammo.

knucklehead0202
02-15-2015, 8:46 AM
To get a nice garand you'll spend a fair chunk of money. I personally find the Hakim and Ljungman to be more interesting, while still being affordable. They both are extremely easy to disassemble and clean, and ammo isn't that much of an issue. Hakims will shoot most available surplus ammo, and have an adjustable gas system. The ljungman can be more finicky, but mine has shot a couple different kinds of commercial ammo without issue. I plan to handload for it to further simplify this. What I think troubles me about the garand, is the money they get for them, versus how many were made and how far they had to travel. Garands were designed and built right here, and they made tons of them. Most that are anywhere near what I'd consider a reasonable price, are re-works and/or mixmasters. When people look at a ljungman or hakim, they want to cheap out because something may not be matching or original. These are comparatively a much rarer piece but still don't seem to have the same perceived value. I don't get it.

To answer the OP's question, I'd buy both of them, because you'll pay that much for a nice garand, and it's only one cool gun, instead of two.

Armistice
02-15-2015, 8:52 AM
Knucklehead, I can guarantee you that the Garand is so iconic to Americans, that they will pay any price to have one

I'm sure in Germany a K98 would be the same to them. That's iconic Germany and people will jack up the price because people will pay it

Supply and demand, my friend :)

Mustang
02-15-2015, 9:23 AM
If you do opt for the Garand, the CMP is the place to get one.

They are currently $630 to $730 for a Field or Service grade...$1030 for a Special grade that comes completely overhauled...new barrel and stock, all other parts refinished or new.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/

mj1
02-15-2015, 12:04 PM
The only answer is get both. I have some spare extractors with springs and pins but I don't recall which rifle they fit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/DSCF0015a_zps88d8fe7f.jpg

OniKoroshi
02-15-2015, 1:07 PM
I'm with MJ1. Answer should be "AND"

Capybara
02-15-2015, 2:20 PM
Thanks for the edumacation on calibers Armistice, I didn't know the A42 took 6.5 x 55mm.

1970gmc
02-15-2015, 3:21 PM
Thanks from everyone for their help on this one.

Unfortunately MJ1 funds don't allow me to get both. My budget if for a grand or less. I did talk to the store owner and he said that the guy who has the Hakim on consignment has another one that is nicer and has not been refinished. My thinking is that I will try and get the nicer one that I have yet to see because I am of the same though that it is a rarer occurrence to find one than the Garand and I can always find one later.

Mustang, your description of the AG 42 sounds like my Mini 14 that I used to have.

As a side note I reload, although not 8mm yet, so I think that keeping the cost down should be doable and make the Hakim more affordable to shoot.

The garand is one of my grail guns as well but I think I'm going to pass for now and grab one the Hakims. Maybe with some talking I can get the price down a bit on the refinished one if the owner doesn't want to part with the nicer one.

Thank you all again. I will post pics when I have finally gotten whatever I end up getting.

knucklehead0202
02-15-2015, 7:48 PM
Knucklehead, I can guarantee you that the Garand is so iconic to Americans, that they will pay any price to have one

I'm sure in Germany a K98 would be the same to them. That's iconic Germany and people will jack up the price because people will pay it

Supply and demand, my friend :)

Overall you're probably right, but I don't feel that way. Not rightly sure why, because I've shot garands and really find them nice, and easy to shoot well, they just do nothing for me. The weirder stuff, however, I find awesome. After shooting your svt-40, I HAVE to have one, just need to save some cash. All tolled though, I'd rather shoot a ljungman or hakim than any of them. Only other thing I revere that much is Syntax's Luxy fn-49. Man that thing is sweet!

Mustang
02-15-2015, 8:18 PM
Overall you're probably right, but I don't feel that way. Not rightly sure why, because I've shot garands and really find them nice, and easy to shoot well, they just do nothing for me. The weirder stuff, however, I find awesome. After shooting your svt-40, I HAVE to have one, just need to save some cash. All tolled though, I'd rather shoot a ljungman or hakim than any of them. Only other thing I revere that much is Syntax's Luxy fn-49. Man that thing is sweet!

The FN 49's are sweet...I've got a 30.06, a couple of 8x57 Egyptians, and the one I like the best, a Venezuelan 7x57.

Oddly, My Hakims are more accurate than my Egyptian FN's.

knucklehead0202
02-15-2015, 10:29 PM
I've been interested in them but never handled or fired one. The fact that the first one I shot was a pristine Luxembourg probably didn't hurt, but I'm sold. They are super-sweet. I'll likely get a Hakim first since they're less expensive and a bit more accessible, but time will tell. Also got to shoot a Rasheed, which is awesome as well. Thanks to our little crowd that gathers at West End, I've had some great opportunities to shoot some badass things I otherwise wouldn't until I bought one. Haven't shot a G/K 43 yet, but that's one of the only really wildcard things I haven't had a chance at, and surely can't afford. Don't suppose anyone owns a ZH-29?

Mustang
02-15-2015, 11:11 PM
My sons and I shoot in a monthly vintage military rifle silhouette match. Every other month they add a semi auto vintage military silhouette match to the mix. Because of these matches and my two sons, who are both shooters, I figure I can justify buying three of everything :)

It would be nice to glom an SVT40 one of these days, but they are pretty pricey.

Grendl
02-18-2015, 1:58 PM
Nobody who shoots my Hakim can miss. 10 clangs for 10 bangs every time. Can't say the same for any of my Garands, FN-49, or just about anything else for that matter.

Steve G
02-18-2015, 2:26 PM
I paid $600 for a minty Hakim about 3 months ago. Bore is shiny bright and hasn't been refinished. I think $600 for a refinished example is pretty high. Oh, the Hakim is super easy to take apart and clean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8lGyrQD2dk

Dr. Peter Venkman
02-19-2015, 7:33 AM
I would pick up a nice Ljungman before getting a Hakim. Most of the Hakim's I have seen have been pretty rough around the edges. My Ljungman runs like a Cadillac and 6.5 Swede is pretty sweet. I'll get a Hakim someday but between than and the Ljungman it's an easy choice.

emcon5
02-19-2015, 8:59 AM
To answer the OP's question, I'd buy both of them, because you'll pay that much for a nice garand, and it's only one cool gun, instead of two.

http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/

Field grades are still $630, and service grade $730.

mj1
02-19-2015, 10:44 AM
Found it! AG42 extractor. Husqvarna marked if anyone needs a spare

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/montereyjack/WTS/IMG_20150219_083646770_zpsfc3430b1.jpg

Michael K
02-20-2015, 1:46 AM
I bought a Ljungman and Hakim in 1992 and 1994, from Dick Hobbs and John Beale, at San Mateo and San Jose gun shows respectively. If you can afford to do so, I really think you should get both.

If I could only afford one or two, I would definitely buy a Ljungman and/or Hakim in preference to a Garand. I've never particularly liked US military weapons, but I have a Remington 03A3 and a Springfield Armory M1 purchased sometime in 1990-1993. The Remington looks unfired with its original barrel. The M1 has a new and non-original barrel but has clearly seen some hard use. I would much prefer to have an unissued all-original weapon to one that has certifiably (now just how could you do that?) taken part in every major World War II battle, but I just wouldn't be able to afford one that good.

1970gmc
02-20-2015, 4:10 AM
I ended up buying the Hakim and worked a deal with the owner of the gun for a nice K-31 at the same time. I've eying the Swiss rifles for a while as well and he made the price right so I think I got a pretty good deal on it all. I will post pics when I get them both out of jail.

I'll put the Garand search off until next year.

PS. After operating the action on the Hakim I can see why everyone says that it can cause a nasty case of Garand thumb.

Mustang
02-20-2015, 5:43 AM
I ended up buying the Hakim and worked a deal with the owner of the gun for a nice K-31 at the same time. I've eying the Swiss rifles for a while as well and he made the price right so I think I got a pretty good deal on it all. I will post pics when I get them both out of jail.

I'll put the Garand search off until next year.

PS. After operating the action on the Hakim I can see why everyone says that it can cause a nasty case of Garand thumb.

Sounds like you made out.

The key to avoiding Hakim thumb or Ljungman thumb, I have found, is to always make sure the safety is on before you start mucking around in the action.

Bobby Ricigliano
02-20-2015, 2:50 PM
I am partial to Garands and would take one over a Hakim or Ljungman. Since it is the classic all American battle rifle, I overlook my minor quibbles with it:

Expensive
Ammo sensitive
Ammo expensive
Lot of small parts, sort of a PITA to clean / grease
Hard to look down the bore, cleaning rod has to go in through the muzzle.

I still do truly love mine though. I got three of em :rolleyes:

Michael K
02-20-2015, 5:35 PM
M1 thumb is something I learned the hard way. Dad's service was during 1947-1958 but he never told me about it. He did tell me about the much hated job of repairing tracks on the M26 and M47 tanks: pinched fingers, crushed toes, and general hilarity and unprintable curses.

Cloudy
02-21-2015, 5:44 AM
I had a Hakim in the 1980's and it was a good shooting weapon. I did get a nasty case of "Hakim Thumb" though (wasn't a thumb and I still have the scar...). Oddly enough, I have never had the same issue with the M1 so whether it's a question of design or experience, I couldn't say :-)

Springfield45
02-21-2015, 1:22 PM
While a M1 Garand thumb can make your thumb hurt the Hakim will take the entire thumb off for you. They are very unique rifles.

1970gmc
04-07-2015, 4:20 AM
Sorry it has take so long to post up pictures. Between work and the kid the time I had to wait to pick these up has been nearly unbearably long. Without further ado here are the crappy cell phone pictures of my new to me K-31 and my Hakim. If you look in one of the close ups of the Hakim you can see some writing that some individual etched into the gun. If anyone can read it let me know what it says because it is way outside my linguistic abilities. I will post better pictures when I get a chance.

403659

403660

403661

403662

403663

1970gmc
04-07-2015, 4:23 AM
403664

403665

Mustang
04-07-2015, 5:40 AM
Nice looking rifle. The bolt looks like it has been jeweled.

knucklehead0202
04-07-2015, 6:19 AM
Jeweled bolt on a Hakim, different. It's a very nice looking rifle though. Those things are a ton of fun to shoot, think I need to get another one.

1970gmc
04-07-2015, 7:13 AM
I thought it was a bit different too but the AG42 I saw had a jeweled bolt as well. The guns were in different stores so I don't think it was one persons love of jeweling bolts.

Mustang
04-07-2015, 7:46 AM
I thought it was a bit different too but the AG42 I saw had a jeweled bolt as well. The guns were in different stores so I don't think it was one persons love of jeweling bolts.

Never seen a jeweled bolt on a Ljungman or a Hakim, but it doesn't look bad.

Post a range report when you can

marksmandowntown
04-07-2015, 11:17 AM
This was a fun thread, thanks for sharing. I decided against getting a Hakim because of the expense of 8mm (I don't reload), but I still really want one. I picked up a Rasheed (7.62x39) instead and I love it. Your Hakim looks really cool, in your place I'd leave the stock shiny even though it isn't correct.