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Vin496
05-31-2008, 8:12 PM
Alright my AR build should be getting complete within the next 2 weeks.

I have limited my choices to either a ACOG TA11F or a Schmidt & Bender 1.1x4 Short Dot CQB.

Price point not being a factor what would you guys choose and why? Is the Schmidt really all that, or is it more a case of lust for the "unobtanium"?

brando
05-31-2008, 8:41 PM
The S&B filled a niche that had a void back in 2004. There were no good variable low-power optics with an illuminated reticle that worked in full daylight. The ACOG is fixed power, so it doesn't really count. Since then there have been others that have jumped on the band wagon, though none really at the same level as the Short Dot. For example, the Nightforce 1-4x NXS is excellent, though you don't get the red-dot style reticle and you can't see it's illumination in the daylight.

The reason why variable low-power optics suddenly became desirable is because of urban combat in Iraq. So much of the combat in that environment happens less than 300m away, so having a red dot sight for quick close-up acquisition is desirable. However, there's a lot of innocent folks mixed in with the bad guys, so you also need to be able to identify your targets carefully - that's when it's good to have a 4x power optic.

Do you get where I'm going with this?

Bouncing around in a HMMWV and entering a house, an Aimpoint or EOTech rules the game. However shooting rooftop to rooftop or holding an alleyway is where a powered optic rules. The Short Dot was the first to really fill this niche really well (ie well accepted). It's pricey, though you get what you pay for. The thing is, you should really ask yourself if you really need it? If you're just plinking at the range, a less expensive scope will do the trick. The expensive military grade scopes are made to be incredibly rugged for combat; a bit overkill for casual shooting use. It's up to you. Personally, I think both are good optics though the S&B has the edge because you can use it like an RDS or like an ACOG. The ACOG is fixed power, so it takes some getting used to when shooting up close (definitely not as fast for target acquisition). The NSN model with the .223 M855 M4 BDC reticle is excellent as a point-defense optic. I used it whenever I was back in the safe house and the only shooting I expected to do was from the roof down into the neighborhood. The magnification is great for picking out targets and the BDC reticle is great for placing rounds at distance.

uscbigdawg
06-01-2008, 4:19 AM
Bouncing around in a HMMWV and entering a house, an Aimpoint or EOTech rules the game.

Kind of a blanket statement, no? I think my ACOG did quite well bouncing around my Blackhawk and my truck (HMMWV) just fine and yeah, using the OEG technique with my ACOG, I did more than fine in clearing building in Afghanistan.

Just a thought.

Rich

brando
06-01-2008, 1:08 PM
Sure, it's functional, but is it ideal? On an ACOG the FOV is much more narrow and the magnification slows acquisition up close; that's the point I was trying to make. The OEG technique takes a bit of training to get used to and for some people it's counter-intuitive.

uscbigdawg
06-01-2008, 5:26 PM
...bit of training. My guys got it in 1-3 days on the range and being OPEN to a new technique and equipment. As for versatility, pretty tough to go from CQ to shots at distance on the fly.

That said, I'll say that NOTHING is an answer to everything....yet.

Rich

brando
06-01-2008, 6:34 PM
But that was indeed the point of developing an optic like the SD (trying to combine RDS and low power magnification).

randy
06-13-2008, 2:24 AM
If you've got the cash or credit buy the SB. ACOGs are great optics too, but just aren't the best for what I want or need or think I need.

LibertyOptics
06-13-2008, 9:06 AM
I guess my question is: What is the primary type of shooting you will be doing?

Scott

idk
06-21-2008, 4:25 PM
I varible 1-4 scopes the SD is very nice and hard to beat, if your spending the coin another option is USO SN4.
Roger

schmud0811
06-21-2008, 9:00 PM
never used a schmidt on a m-16.....used an acog for many a year and thousands of rounds....IMO go with the acog u can use it from 5 yds to 800.
I would get the RCO version witht the red chevrion if i wanted a versitile optic. tough optic no batterys, 4 power view, hold overs for shooting at distance, rudemantary range finder built in, and laser eye surgery frendly unlike the aimpoint.

Vin496
06-22-2008, 9:19 AM
Well I went with the ACOG TA11F, took it out a few days ago to dial it in, at 100 yards I was shooting 1 inch groups. For a Combat 3.5X piece of glass, I was very impressed. Even took it off and used BUIS, then mounted it back up, and it stayed zeroed.

I should say for these shots, I wasn't going for ultimate accuracy, these are fairly quick fired groups, from a bench seated position.

Nice glass with an awesome upper seems to make a nice combo.

Setup
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/vincev07/737469be.jpg

100 yard shots groups.
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/vincev07/e5768792.jpghttp://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p290/vincev07/aac16ca9.jpg

reddot556
06-22-2008, 4:43 PM
hey vin,
what kind of buttstock is that?

Vin496
06-22-2008, 4:52 PM
hey vin,
what kind of buttstock is that?

Magpul UBR

leelaw
06-22-2008, 5:46 PM
Hey Vin, how do you know your groups weren't really alot bigger than that? ie: how do you distinguish "the 7 shots I just fired" from "the other 200 holes on paper"?

USN CHIEF
06-22-2008, 6:12 PM
Hey Vin, how do you know your groups weren't really alot bigger than that? ie: how do you distinguish "the 7 shots I just fired" from "the other 200 holes on paper"?

:D I was wondering the same thing when I first saw it but did not want to be so cruel about it:D

Vin496
06-22-2008, 8:11 PM
Hey Vin, how do you know your groups weren't really alot bigger than that? ie: how do you distinguish "the 7 shots I just fired" from "the other 200 holes on paper"?

Easy this isn't my target I used to dial in my scope. I shot those two groups(aimed to be in 2 different locations), then waited around for 15+minutes till we were given the all clear, went out circled my groups, then shot the crap out of the paper when we were allowed to fire again. I shot at the top right/bottom left then I would shoot standing those are all the random in the black shots.

Trust me, it isn't me, it's the rifle.:D

It just came together so well, the UBR stock perfectly balanced out the rifle for me.