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pw455
05-30-2008, 7:18 AM
I've been searching this forum for the past couple months and am finally ready to start building my first AR-15. I don't plan to compete, but want to build something close to a Service Rifle with floating handguards. I'll be shooting mostly at 100 yards and up to maybe 300 yards. Most of the time I'll be shooting inexpensive 55 grain ammunition, but will sometimes use better ammo to see what kind of groups I can get. I initially plan to use iron sights, but may put some optic on it in the future. I've narrowed my uppers down to the following two, but I'm open to any other suggestions.

CMMG
A3 receiver
Medcon 1:8 20" stainless barrel w/ M4 ramps
5.56 chamber
A2 Flash Suppressor
Carry Handle with NM rear sight
Front A2 sight
Floating DPMS handguards
Standard BCG

White Oak Armament
A3 receiver
1:7 20" stainless barrel (no M4 ramps)
Wylde Chamber
A2 Flash Suppressor
Carry Handle with NM rear sight
Front NM sight
Floating handguards
Advanced Ordinance or LMT BCG

I'm a little worried about the 1:7 twist on the WOA so I may pay a little more and get a 1:8 barrel instead.

Which of the above options would be best given they are both pretty close in price? I'm leaning towards the WOA at this point. I've heard good things about White Oak Arms, but not sure how they compare with CMMG.

I don't have a lower yet, but plan to build a CMMG OLL, RRA LPK, RRA NM Trigger, A2 stock, bullet button.

I'd really appreciate any advice on these two options or if there are any other brands I should be looking at.

Thanks,
Pete

Prc329
05-30-2008, 7:41 AM
Look at this bad boy.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/unma2407.gif

www.ar15sales.com can give you an excellent price. May have to wait on it though. Very accurate. I hear many cats start with this and do pretty well. I made the terrible mistake of selling my RRA NM A2 and miss it terribly. It was a great shooter and loved 75g wolf gold and my 77g reloads.

Paratus et Vigilans
05-30-2008, 7:41 AM
If you're going to shoot mostly 55 gr. you don't want a 1/7 twist barrel. The fast twist will not work well with those rounds, as it has been explained to me. That fast a twist with a 55 gr. bullet supposedly results in tumbling or outright disintegration of the bullet.

That being said, if you're interested in a service rifle build, the WOA Service Rifle upper is just about the best out there for high power service rifle shooting, but it's really a specialized kind of upper. Mine gets only 77 and 80 gr. hand loads fed to it, and I only use it for service rifle competition and practices. If you aren't going to get into high power competition, it's probably a waste of money for you to go that route. But hey, why NOT compete? It's a lot of work to shoot across the course, but it's rewarding and will make you a better shooter, plus the shooters you will meet and get to know are another great benefit of competing - - no one cares if you shoot great or you shoot lousy - - I've only been in it for about a year and a half, and I'm still way down there on the learning curve, but I've learned more about shooting with precision and accuracy in that time than in all my years of shooting before that.

So, I say go for it, get the WOA and get into competing with it.

But . . if that's just not your thing, but you like the look of a service rifle build, and want to shoot mostly 55 gr. for economy, get a 1/9 barrel and get a CMP free float tube and handguard for it, and then you'll have the look you want, and the economy of using 55 gr. rounds in it. If you call up John Holliger at White Oak and tell him what you want, he'll build it for you, I'm sure. His NM 1/4 x 1/4 pinned rear sights and his adjustable front sight block are excellent, BTW.

ocabj
05-30-2008, 8:00 AM
WOA > CMMG. No slight on CMMG, but White Oak is run by an accomplished HP shooter who understands the sport.

As far as the 1:7" twist is concerned, there's no reason why you can't shoot 55gr out of it. The military has been using 55gr out of their 20" 1:7" A2s for a long time. Accuracy probably won't be that great using cheap 55gr FMJ ammo, but it never really is. But you will not have to worry about the 55gr coming apart out of a 20" 1:7. As far as the A3/A4 configuration, I'm not seeing this on the WOA website. If you're asking WOA for a custom SR upper with an A3/A4 flattop instead of a standard A2, then you may as well ask if they'll cut you a 1:8" barrel as well, so you can feel better about shooting 50-62gr bullets.

The RRA is an option for you as well. But as noted, everyone complains about the lag time from RRA, so your best bet is to try to find an RRA dealer with one in-stock. WOA has roughly a 6 week order to delivery time (I just received another SR upper from WOA a week ago, took just under 6 weeks from my call-in order to the day it arrived at the door).

Paratus et Vigilans
05-30-2008, 8:20 AM
As far as the 1:7" twist is concerned, there's no reason why you can't shoot 55gr out of it. The military has been using 55gr out of their 20" 1:7" A2s for a long time. Accuracy probably won't be that great using cheap 55gr FMJ ammo, but it never really is. But you will not have to worry about the 55gr coming apart out of a 20" 1:7.

I learn something new every day! :)

Thanks, Jon

ar15barrels
05-30-2008, 8:54 AM
The 223 Wylde chamber of the WOA barrel will give superior accuracy to the 5.56 chamber of the CMMG.

iNFILTRATE
05-30-2008, 9:09 AM
Is this a good resource for barrel information?

http://www.6mmbr.citymaker.com/barrelFAQ.html

ar15barrels
05-30-2008, 9:47 AM
http://www.firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/RifledBarrelManuf/BarrelManufacture.htm

pw455
05-30-2008, 10:34 AM
Thanks for all the responses so far!

It sounds like WOA probably has a slight edge over CMMG since this is more WOA's specialty, they have the Wylde chamber and it's a little less money.

Paratus,
Who knows. In a few years I may look into competing. Pretty tight on time right now and not even sure if there's anything near me in the Livermore area. Since I don't really know exactly what ammo I'll be shooting I'll probably have them make a 1:8 just to be on the safe side. I've been debating about those pinned rear sights as well.

ocabj
I called WOA yesterday and they are able to custom build an upper with the A3 receiver and NM carry handle. Good point to ask for the 1:8 barrel since it'll be a custom build anyways

How is RRA's quality compared with WOA? I seem to hear mostly positive reviews about their quality.

Army GI
05-30-2008, 10:40 AM
Definately WOA.

Also for those of you that don't know, he also makes a 16" carbine version of the service rifle upper.

Not legal for CMP, but still a great upper for the money.

As far as the A3/A4 configuration, I'm not seeing this on the WOA website. If you're asking WOA for a custom SR upper with an A3/A4 flattop instead of a standard A2, then you may as well ask if they'll cut you a 1:8" barrel as well, so you can feel better about shooting 50-62gr bullets.

It's not standard, but he does make the Service Rifle upper in an A4 configuration. Here's his response to my email:


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Army GI
> Sent: Sunday, May 11, 2008 10:09 PM
> To: john@whiteoakarmament.com
> Subject: Question about Service Rifle upper
>
> Hello,
>
> Do you offer a 16" carbine version of your National Match Service
> Rifle upper? Is the Service Rifle Upper available with an
> A4 receiver? Thanks.
>
> -Army GI
>

--- John Holliger <john@whiteoakarmament.com> wrote:
> We can make a 16" upper, but it will not be CMP legal for service
> rifle competition. Yes, we can build it with a flat top upper.
>
>
> Thanks,
> John Holliger
> White Oak Armament
> (309)376-2288

Prc329
05-30-2008, 10:43 AM
Thanks for all the responses so far!

It sounds like WOA probably has a slight edge over CMMG since this is more WOA's specialty, they have the Wylde chamber and it's a little less money.

Paratus,
Who knows. In a few years I may look into competing. Pretty tight on time right now and not even sure if there's anything near me in the Livermore area. Since I don't really know exactly what ammo I'll be shooting I'll probably have them make a 1:8 just to be on the safe side. I've been debating about those pinned rear sights as well.

ocabj
I called WOA yesterday and they are able to custom build an upper with the A3 receiver and NM carry handle. Good point to ask for the 1:8 barrel since it'll be a custom build anyways

How is RRA's quality compared with WOA? I seem to hear mostly positive reviews about their quality.

RRA makes good stuff. I really like there uppers. That being said, comparing a WOA built upper to an RRA is like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari (WOA being the Ferrari). They both are fast cars but the Ferrari is in a different class.

ar15barrels
05-30-2008, 10:43 AM
Also for those of you that don't know, he also makes a 16" carbine version of the service rifle upper.

Not legal for CMP, but still a great upper for the money.

A mid-length would be better. ;)