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emc002
05-29-2008, 12:46 PM
I have both a Fulton .308 OLL and Noveske N-6 OLL and am ready to build one of them up this year into a 1,000+ yard rifle.

1) Which lower (if there is a difference) is the better application to build a 20~24" 1,000+ yard rifle on and which is more suitable to a 16" barrel CQB style upper?
2) Which barrel brands are recommended? I'll be going with a custom built upper for this application, not mass produced since I'm not sure any that are mass produced are worth it (am I wrong in this assumption?).
3) Should I consider an alternate cartridge that is compatible with these lowers to get me out that far? If so, which cartridge? (Is .338 Lapua compatable with these lowers/mags?)

I've pretty well figured out glass (S&B or NF), trigger (Geiselle or KAC), buttstock (Magpul PRS) & bipod (Harris).

C.G.
05-29-2008, 1:32 PM
If you want to go to 1,000 yard 16" barrel won't do it. 20" barrel might do it, but you really need to go 21" or longer. As to manufacturers, you can go with Armalite 24" 10T or 21" Noveske uppers
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=60
or just barrels:
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=19

or Randall from AR15barrels.com might be able to fix you up.

The lowers you have do not fit .338 Lapua Magnum, but you can get .338 Federal uppers or barrels/bolts for them.

FlyingPen
05-29-2008, 1:48 PM
I think I saw a article where barrel design can make a bigger impact on muzzle velocity than barrel length. I was surprised. Around a 20" fancy barrel actually had a higher velocity in almost all loads than a 26" SPS-Varmint heavy barrel.

brando
05-29-2008, 1:50 PM
For 1000 yard .308 shooting you really need a good barrel that can push 175 SMK's to about 2650fps (or 155 Scenars to 2900+ fps). A 20" should be sufficient.

ocabj
05-29-2008, 1:51 PM
For something as custom as this, you may want to go with a Krieger or Pac Nor.

6.5 Creedmoor is an option, albeit new. I think a 6.5mm will be far better than 30cal.

emc002
05-29-2008, 1:58 PM
If you want to go to 1,000 yard 16" barrel won't do it. 20" barrel might do it, but you really need to go 21" or longer. As to manufacturers, you can go with Armalite 24" 10T or 21" Noveske uppers
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=60
or just barrels:
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=19

or Randall from AR15barrels.com might be able to fix you up.

The lowers you have do not fit .338 Lapua Magnum, but you can get .338 Federal uppers or barrels/bolts for them.

16" was only in reference to my CQB, not the 1,000 rifle.
Randall's too busy (from another recent thread he's not taking new orders for the time being).
Are Noveske & Armalite of suitable quality to get me to 1,000 yards reliably (with good match ammo of course)?

thmpr
05-29-2008, 2:05 PM
Ask John N. for some tips on which twist, length and grooves best suits your needs.

ocabj
05-29-2008, 2:11 PM
16" was only in reference to my CQB, not the 1,000 rifle.
Randall's too busy (from another recent thread he's not taking new orders for the time being).
Are Noveske & Armalite of suitable quality to get me to 1,000 yards reliably (with good match ammo of course)?

Contact Jim Gruning of Gruning Precision:
http://www.gruningprecision.com/

I know of at least two High Power competitors (friends) that had him install barrels for them (ARs and M14s) and he did good work. One of them has had him do his past three (3) rebarrels, at least; 2 service rifle barrels on the AR and one match rifle barrel (26" space gun) on the AR.

If you acquire all the parts for the upper (receiver, barrel float tube, gas tube, bolt, bolt carrier, etc), all you have to do is have Gruning chamber and install the barrel for you (and the other parts, if necessary). Of course, you'll need to make sure he has the reamer you want. I'm sure he'll have the .308 (and .223). But if you want something like a 6.5 Creedmoor or another uncommon cartridge, you might have to provide the reamer.

Or... you can just see if Krieger, Pac Nor, etc will cut and ream a barrel for you with your supplied bolt (and upper receiver if required), which I'm sure they will do.

hss0p
05-29-2008, 3:18 PM
If you want to go to 1,000 yard 16" barrel won't do it. 20" barrel might do it, but you really need to go 21" or longer. 21" Noveske uppers

x2 on the 21" noveske. Just shot one last weekend. WOW. Those things rock. Noveske makes a quality product.

Good luck with your build.

uscbigdawg
05-29-2008, 3:37 PM
The new hottness is the 308 rifles (and uppers) from JP Enterprises. Specifically designed for the DPMS LR-308, so you should check for compatibility with yours, but it is incredible. After that, are uppers built by Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports. Tell him I sent you and you'll be very well taken care of.

Rich

AKman
05-29-2008, 4:03 PM
I have both a Fulton .308 OLL and Noveske N-6 OLL and am ready to build one of them up this year into a 1,000+ yard rifle.

1) Which lower (if there is a difference) is the better application to build a 20~24" 1,000+ yard rifle on and which is more suitable to a 16" barrel CQB style upper?
2) Which barrel brands are recommended? I'll be going with a custom built upper for this application, not mass produced since I'm not sure any that are mass produced are worth it (am I wrong in this assumption?).
3) Should I consider an alternate cartridge that is compatible with these lowers to get me out that far? If so, which cartridge? (Is .338 Lapua compatable with these lowers/mags?)

I've pretty well figured out glass (S&B or NF), trigger (Geiselle or KAC), buttstock (Magpul PRS) & bipod (Harris).

You been looking in my gun safe? I've done builds with Fulton, Noveske and POF in .308. I put a Fulton upper with a Krieger barrel (22" Criterion by Krieger Stainless Steel four groove one-in-ten Heavy Barrel ) on one of them and it shoots great. That particular build has all of your other features (NF, Geisells, PRS & Harris).

At 1,000 yards I hit my secondary target every time (a big ball with a diameter of 7,925 miles).

trinydex
05-29-2008, 4:52 PM
At 1,000 yards I hit my secondary target every time (a big ball with a diameter of 7,925 miles).

my bullets won't go that far :[ but i hit the same big ball frequently...

Sniper3142
05-29-2008, 4:59 PM
You might consider getting the following for the Noveske lower:

Armalite AR-10(T) with 24" barrel. Then change out the fiberglass handguard with either a Larue, JP Enterprises, or similar. Or just get a Noveske upper to your specs.

Or you could just call GAP (G.A. Precision) and have them build you something AWESOME.

;)

C.G.
05-29-2008, 6:06 PM
Are Noveske & Armalite of suitable quality to get me to 1,000 yards reliably (with good match ammo of course)?

Yes. Or as has been suggested by Ocabj you can go with Krieger, but be prepared for a long wait (or Pac Nor, but as far as I know they sell AR-10 barrels only through Noveske).

LAK Supply
05-29-2008, 6:11 PM
For 1k the standard is 175gr+ and 24" + barrel.... you need to get a heavier bullet wrapped up good on exit to keep it stable out to 1k. Bushmaster makes a 24" varmint upper for their 223 AR's.... they probably make one for the big lower as well.

rksimple
05-29-2008, 6:14 PM
If you're really serious about 1000 yards, not just getting the bullet there supersonic but actually hitting something, velocity is your friend. Go 24 inches and push the 155 scenars as fast as practical. A stock AR10T upper will do it if you're up to it. I've seen guys clean house with stock dpms lr-308s. The factor that will make the biggest difference at that distance is practice.

Cypriss32
05-29-2008, 6:50 PM
If you go custom, run the 6.5 creedmore. You can shoot 130gr VLDs and any other VLD mag lengh.
If you go factory take a look for a used DPMS 24" A3 upper. GET The custom A3 flattop due to ability to run a riser. Then for the riser get a 20-28moa piece. I personally would run a badger. A nice scope, Nikon tactical, leupold, NF 3.5-15x 50mm, or USO 3.2-14x 44mm. NF or USO would be the best bet.

Greenspartan117
05-29-2008, 9:38 PM
i'm with the 6.5 crowd on caliber, you could go with .260 Remington that uses the .264 bullet, which is a necked down 308 case. Nosler is making .260 brass now too which is good. bc for a .264(6.5 Creedmore and .260 can use this bullet) 139gr Lapua Scenar has a bc of .615, the .308 with 155gr Lapua Scenar has a bc of .508.

http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/

This article has info on both the .260 and the 6.5 Creedmore

ocabj
05-29-2008, 10:09 PM
The BC of the 6.5mm bullets simply decimate 30cal bullets. Not only that, but considering most of the ultra-high BC 6.5mm bullets weigh in at 140gr, give or take a few grains, you'll be able to push the 6.5mm bullets faster and with less recoil than the 30cal based cartridges.

rksimple
05-29-2008, 10:32 PM
The BC of the 6.5mm bullets simply decimate 30cal bullets. Not only that, but considering most of the ultra-high BC 6.5mm bullets weigh in at 140gr, give or take a few grains, you'll be able to push the 6.5mm bullets faster and with less recoil than the 30cal based cartridges.

Out of the 260, the 139's are only going to hit 2850...and thats pushing it a bit. Take it one step further down to 6mm and you get the DTACs (only a BC of .585) that you can get going 3000 easy, 3150 if you like wearing out brass. At that velocity it kills the 6.5's. It also kills barrels in short order. Being barrel friendly is about the only the 308 has going for it any more.

To the OP, if you're thinking about any 6's or 6.5's, make sure you get the right twist. The heavies require a tighter twist than is found in most stock barrels. The 260 is a great "in the middle" caliber thats relatively easy on barrels (~3500-4000) and yields excellent ballistics.

blindluck
05-30-2008, 12:46 AM
Here's an interesting tidbit about Georges own 260 remington AR10:
http://leveron.com/pix/ar10-260/

And some info on 260 Remington:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/the-case-for-260-remington/

And a gun that recently sold on ARF:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=120&t=545616&page=1

emc002
05-30-2008, 1:55 PM
Good information here, thanks. Especially alternative caliber choices cmopatible with the AR-10 platform.

But back to my original question... Do I build this rifle on the Fulton or Noveske OLL? Or does it not even matter?

C.G.
05-30-2008, 2:08 PM
Good information here, thanks. Especially alternative caliber choices cmopatible with the AR-10 platform.

But back to my original question... Do I build this rifle on the Fulton or Noveske OLL? Or does it not even matter?

Sort of doesn't matter, just make sure all parts are compatible with whichever you decide to go with.

ar15barrels
05-30-2008, 10:35 PM
Another vote for a 260 build.

I have a DPMS 24" 260 barrel sitting here to build with, but no receivers or bolt carriers. :(

DrunkSkunk
05-30-2008, 10:37 PM
I have a DPMS 24" 260 barrel sitting here to build with, but no receivers or bolt carriers. :(

For shame! :nono:

:p

emc002
06-01-2008, 8:21 PM
Another vote for a 260 build.

I have a DPMS 24" 260 barrel sitting here to build with, but no receivers or bolt carriers. :(

I'd recommend Randall, but he's backlogged... :p

But seriously, .260 over 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 Grendel (I know, AR15 not AR10 build but I've got a couple AR15 OLLs too), .270 or .338 Federal

Cypriss32
06-02-2008, 7:21 AM
But seriously, .260 over 6.5 Creedmoor,


Lets hear why?
Read threw this:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=585374&page=1

FMJBT
06-08-2008, 1:22 PM
The latest Shotgun News Treasury issue (8th) has an article on the Army's SDM-R. Using a 20" 1-8" twist barrel with MK262 Mod1 ammo (77gr. SMK's) they are able to shoot accurately out to 1000 yards. Wouldn't be my first choice, but it's pretty impressive for a 5.56.