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Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 7:56 AM
Well guys i just took my SKS this sunday up to Burrow Canyon and i had a blast! first time shooting a rifle and man was it fun and expensive! lol

I came to the realization that id like to shoot farther maybe 100+ yards with a scope. and i gave myself two options

A) A WWII mosin , or sniper rifle type rifle, perferably under 175$

B) Some type of 22. rifle maybe a Marlin

now i gave myself these 2 options because they are cheaper , i wanna spend less then $200 including dross and taxes, heck if the rifles are old enough cant i just do Cash and carry ?

My questoin is which would would be the most accurate WWII era Sniper rifle / Mosin that i could get for under $200, ive heard that the German k98? is pretty accurate but i wanna get ur imput on it ,

If its gonna be a WWII style rifle i would perfer a boltaction , and i thinkt he marlins come in semi auto ?

thanks guys!

rgs1975
05-27-2008, 8:41 AM
For old, bolt action, military surplus accuracy you gotta give it to the Swiss K31

IGOTDIRT4U
05-27-2008, 8:45 AM
For old, bolt action, military surplus accuracy you gotta give it to the Swiss K31

Roger that. The Mosins are cheap, easy to find (Big 5) and easy to work on, but for a bit more, a good to great condition K31 is a MUCH better shooter.

If I was going to go new and .22, get the Ruger 10/22. There are SOOOO many options and aftermarket parts for that rifle it will stagger you.

renardsubtil
05-27-2008, 8:53 AM
A Big 5 Mosin with good 100 yard accuracy seems to be somewhat of hit or miss from I've been reading...

I shoot a Finnish Mosin and a Swiss K31 and both are not in the $200 range unfortunately. I can't comment about the K98 mauser but I don't think those go for $200 either :(

Edit:
Actually you can find a Finnish Mosin on Gunbroker or Gunsamerica still for under $200, imho if you want a Mosin that's the best way to go.

rgs1975
05-27-2008, 9:04 AM
Another one to contemplate is the Enfield No.1 MkIII. I had one for years and it was nearly a tack driver at 100+ yards. Definitely a sub $200 gun.

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 9:28 AM
What about the Russian m44, how is that in the accuracy department ?

X-NewYawker
05-27-2008, 9:33 AM
With the cost of even surplus ammo, why not a good 22?
A CZ bolt or Ruger 10/22 will give you 100 yard accuracy with a cheap scope and CCI green tag or mini mags.

X-NewYawker
05-27-2008, 9:34 AM
And BTW everyone out there with a 22 should STOCK UP on Ammo while you can! Prices and laws going up up up!

Someguy925
05-27-2008, 10:03 AM
if you're going to do the .22 route, there's a few good ones. 10/22 is apparently great for customization.

I have a marlin model 60 which i thought was worth the 70 dollars. Can't go wrong with a 17 round magazine tube.

What Just Happened?
05-27-2008, 12:32 PM
I believe that 150 yards is the limit that people shoot 22lr's at. Just something to keep in mind.

biscuitninja
05-27-2008, 12:32 PM
I ascribe to the Mosin Nagant thread. There is a picture of my little grouping (open IRON sights).
While not exactly a tack driver that big honking round is still travelling at 2200- 2400 fps (M44 to 91/30).
This is a $59 and $79 dollar rifle that I picked up with my FFL03. I did add a few changes to clean them up.
(Bedded the action and corked the barrel, smoothed up all the action surfaces....) Overall these are some of the simplest
devices i've EVER worked on.

I've hit stuff at 200 yards and at 400 yards (VERY modified mosin - bedded, corked, new barrel, all surfaces smoothed, adjustable trigger spring
I'd say 600 yards is the limit unless you get some good custom ammo.
good luck

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/bisquick06/Mosins_100yrds.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/bisquick06/Slide2.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/bisquick06/000_0346.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/bisquick06/Slide1-1.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h111/bisquick06/000_0345.jpg

JTROKS
05-27-2008, 12:51 PM
100 yards for a 22lr is a challenge. Get yourself a nice target grade 22lr rifle. I like the Remington 521T/JS I bought for my son. The Lyman sight is great for teaching a young shooter marksmanship. I can't believe these rifles are 50+ years old and they still shoot with amazing accuracy. I bought mine at a gunshow C&R - $300 that is worth the money.

ohsmily
05-27-2008, 12:51 PM
I don't think I have ever heard 100 yards to be considered long range rifle shooting. Are you talking about 600+? 1000+?

If you only want to shoot to distances not much past 100 yards, your SKS is fine.

Also, for 175.00, you aren't going to be able to get much other than a C&R rifle like a Mosin.

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 1:29 PM
I believe that 150 yards is the limit that people shoot 22lr's at. Just something to keep in mind.

Thats the exact question i was gonna ask, how accurate would normal 22.rifle be at 100yards, i would think it would be REALLY hard to shoot accurate ,

I think what im gonna do afterwork is go bug the guys at Ammobros lol , and browse around their Mosins and cheap used rifles they have,

also remember guys i want a scope so whatever gun i use its for the purpose of 100+yards shooting, you mentioned that i could shoot 100yards w my sks , but who knows at my novice level i had a hard time shooting 50yards out my first try out and i dont wanna put a scope on my sks at all i wanna keep it stock , plus i think il be triky with the top loading,

and I myself consider anythign over 100yards long range:p,

Timberwolf
05-27-2008, 1:38 PM
Thats the exact question i was gonna ask, how accurate would normal 22.rifle be at 100yards, i would think it would be REALLY hard to shoot accurate ,

I think what im gonna do afterwork is go bug the guys at Ammobros lol , and browse around their Mosins and cheap used rifles they have,

also remember guys i want a scope so whatever gun i use its for the purpose of 100+yards shooting, you mentioned that i could shoot 100yards w my sks , but who knows at my novice level i had a hard time shooting 50yards out my first try out and i dont wanna put a scope on my sks at all i wanna keep it stock , plus i think il be triky with the top loading,

and I myself consider anythign over 100yards long range:p,

How accurate a 22 is past 100 yards depends as with any rifle basically on three things - the rifle itself, the ammo, and lastly the shooter. WIth a good rifle, with good ammo, some shooters can regularly hit targets to 400 yards. The 22LR matches I'll be hosting will have targets out to 200 yards.

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 1:42 PM
How accurate a 22 is past 100 yards depends as with any rifle basically on three things - the rifle itself, the ammo, and lastly the shooter. WIth a good rifle, with good ammo, some shooters can regularly hit targets to 400 yards. The 22LR matches I'll be hosting will have targets out to 200 yards.

yeah but I dont think "good" rifle plays a role in my budge below 150

i found this 91/30
http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=detailbrowselarge&storeid=2579858&title=%e2%80%98M91%2f30%e2%80%99+RUSSIAN+MOSIN+NAG ANT+BOLT-ACTION+RIFLE+&img=http%3a%2f%2fakimages.crossmediaservices.com%2 fdyn_li%2f600.0.90.0%2fRetailers%2fBig5SportingGoo ds%2f080327_FP4_9a.JPG

99.99 at big 5, how old do the guns have to be to be a cash and carry ?

Timberwolf
05-27-2008, 1:51 PM
yeah but I dont think "good" rifle plays a role in my budge below 150

i found this 91/30
http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=detailbrowselarge&storeid=2579858&title=%e2%80%98M91%2f30%e2%80%99+RUSSIAN+MOSIN+NAG ANT+BOLT-ACTION+RIFLE+&img=http%3a%2f%2fakimages.crossmediaservices.com%2 fdyn_li%2f600.0.90.0%2fRetailers%2fBig5SportingGoo ds%2f080327_FP4_9a.JPG

99.99 at big 5, how old do the guns have to be to be a cash and carry ?

You'd be surprised - a couple of shooters I as working with yesterday were using a Rem 597 (seen them on Gunbroker for under 200.00) and they were able to get on the 18"x24" steel at 400 3-4 times out of 10.

sierratangofoxtrotunion
05-27-2008, 2:07 PM
How accurate a 22 is past 100 yards depends as with any rifle basically on three things - the rifle itself, the ammo, and lastly the shooter. WIth a good rifle, with good ammo, some shooters can regularly hit targets to 400 yards. The 22LR matches I'll be hosting will have targets out to 200 yards.

I would say that if shooting to 200 yards or more with .22LR, you'll be setting up wind flags, and need to know how to use them, and practice (all to do with the shooter), no matter what gun or ammo.

Timberwolf
05-27-2008, 2:25 PM
I would say that if shooting to 200 yards or more with .22LR, you'll be setting up wind flags, and need to know how to use them, and practice (all to do with the shooter), no matter what gun or ammo.

In Prec/Tact we don't use flags - we use other indicaters like leaves, weeds, blowing dust, mirage, etc - but ditto on the doping of the wind. Even the lightest gust will make a 40gr std vel bullet dance a little - even at 50 yards.

Cypriss32
05-27-2008, 2:29 PM
In Prec/Tact we don't use flags - we use other indicaters like leaves, weeds, blowing dust, mirage, etc - but ditto on the doping of the wind. Even the lightest gust will make a 40gr std vel bullet dance a little - even at 50 yards.

Grab some pixie dust from Bills bag, throw it in the air.

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 2:29 PM
Another question guys, i will be going to the costa mesa gun show in 2-3 weeks and i know some guns are cash and carry no 10 day waiting period. now would a mosin 90/31 be considerd one of those rifles, what is the criteria i realy just wanna buy one cash at the show :) im sure they will have alot! maybe even a swiss k31

biscuitninja
05-27-2008, 3:10 PM
A swiss K31 is considered to be a VERY accurate rifle. I've seen out of the box cleaned versions making 100-400 yard "hits". The ammo is however very expensive. The "mil-surp" stuff is actually match grade and is quite costly. I went with the mosin for the uber cheap ammo as well as cheap parts. You can get or make some cheap match grade stuff (7N1 sniper ammo for sale).

As for cash and carry, I have an FFL03 so its almost always cash and carry. I say go that route, maybe one of us might FFL it for ya and do a cheapie transfer. Good luck
-bix

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 3:58 PM
A swiss K31 is considered to be a VERY accurate rifle. I've seen out of the box cleaned versions making 100-400 yard "hits". The ammo is however very expensive. The "mil-surp" stuff is actually match grade and is quite costly. I went with the mosin for the uber cheap ammo as well as cheap parts. You can get or make some cheap match grade stuff (7N1 sniper ammo for sale).

As for cash and carry, I have an FFL03 so its almost always cash and carry. I say go that route, maybe one of us might FFL it for ya and do a cheapie transfer. Good luck
-bix

Hm, but wouldent it take a while for me to apply for my ffl03, plus i dont know exactly what that means i tried to look it up, but will do more research afterwork :p

JeffM
05-27-2008, 4:08 PM
Rifles 50 years old or older is considered Curio & Relic and are cash and carry, even without an 03FFL (commonly referred to as a "C&R license"). 03FFL is required to have a C&R rifle shipped directly to your home.

Most WWII era rifles, such as Mosins, Enfields, Garands, M1 Carbines, and even Russian SKSs are C&R.

Issues can arise when rifles are altered from their original military configurations. C&R pistols are a different story altogether.

Timberwolf
05-27-2008, 4:11 PM
Define what you consider accruate and how far out you want to shoot. A Mosin unless in real good shape is a minute of paper plate rifle (there are exceptions) at best - you will certainly be able to get better accuracy and cheaper times to the range with a 22LR for ranges under say 150 yards. Beyond that depends on what you call accurate as to whether or not a sub 200.00 C&R rifle will acheive your goals.

What Just Happened?
05-27-2008, 4:20 PM
I believe that the rimfirecentral guys say they get near MOA @ 100 yards with CZ 22lr's and some nicer Marlin bolt-actions.

NRAhighpowershooter
05-27-2008, 4:25 PM
Just for poops and grins... it's easy shooting a 22lr and achieving good accuracy... here's my 1943 Remington 513T from the CMP ($99) and20 rnds of Fiocchi 340 Super Match ammo at 100yds...
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd88/highpowershooter/Targets/is_00145.jpg
This 2nd target is the same rifle but 20rnds of Remington target ammo
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd88/highpowershooter/Targets/is_00136.jpg
And finally the rifle....
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd88/highpowershooter/Firearms/Remington513T.jpg
so if this 60+ yr old rifle is capable of this.. then ANY modern 22lr can do it...

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 5:05 PM
Rifles 50 years old or older is considered Curio & Relic and are cash and carry, even without an 03FFL (commonly referred to as a "C&R license"). 03FFL is required to have a C&R rifle shipped directly to your home.

Most WWII era rifles, such as Mosins, Enfields, Garands, M1 Carbines, and even Russian SKSs are C&R.

Issues can arise when rifles are altered from their original military configurations. C&R pistols are a different story altogether.

wow so your saying if i go to any gunshop (amobros) i could buy , lets say russian m44 or 31/90 and walk out the door with the gun the same day ? Because i dont remember but i think i asked last year, at amobros, that i wanted to buy a russianm44 and i THINK they mentiond something about the 10 day period

taloft
05-27-2008, 5:52 PM
Any purchase from a FFL01 license holder (Dealers) requires DROS and a 10 day wait. Even if the rifle is 50+ years old. You can only cash and carry from C&R license holders and private parties. There are some exceptions to this rule (COE holders) but, not many.

JeffM
05-27-2008, 5:57 PM
taloft is correct. Do your research before you hit the gunshows, or keep looking for what you want in the for-sale section here. If you figure out exactly what you want you could also post a "want-to-buy" add and I'm sure someone here has whatever it is.

Frijolito1988
05-27-2008, 6:05 PM
Any purchase from a FFL01 license holder (Dealers) requires DROS and a 10 day wait. Even if the rifle is 50+ years old. You can only cash and carry from C&R license holders and private parties. There are some exceptions to this rule (COE holders) but, not many.

ah that makes sence!hopefully somebody is seling a mosin in the forsale section thats over 50 years and / or has a c&r licence, makes things much more easier lol ,

so then at the gunshow theres private sales, like a firearm swapmeet ? cool! :43:

JeffM
05-27-2008, 6:21 PM
ah that makes sence!hopefully somebody is seling a mosin in the forsale section thats over 50 years and / or has a c&r licence, makes things much more easier lol ,

so then at the gunshow theres private sales, like a firearm swapmeet ? cool! :43:

There are laws regarding the sales of guns at gunshows. It has been years since I've been to one and I'm not up to speed, so do your research.