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View Full Version : Check-in if you are going to Pala tomorrow


ar15barrels
05-24-2008, 8:12 PM
So who's confirmed that they are going tomorrow?

EmphaticThumb
05-24-2008, 8:22 PM
I will be going

FlyingPen
05-24-2008, 8:39 PM
I am and I think so is SDJim.

hybridatsun350
05-24-2008, 10:37 PM
I will be there. I'm just hoping my Accord will make it down the dirt road!

StraightShooter
05-24-2008, 10:46 PM
Ill be there.

Chase1
05-25-2008, 3:27 AM
I'll be there as well

Jicko
05-25-2008, 4:21 AM
I'll be there.

FlyingPen
05-25-2008, 7:24 PM
Thanks to Don and all the experienced shooters for a great time. Hard to believe that with a lot of coaching even a complete noobie like me was able to it out to 890 yards, thanks for your patience Randall and Phil. Sorry for keep losing/forgetting my zero! :D

Cypriss32
05-25-2008, 7:50 PM
How did it go for everyone?

ar15barrels
05-25-2008, 8:24 PM
How did it go for everyone?

No major events for me.
My stock 700 sendero barrel has to go, cold bore shots are not consistent.

A Savage 10FP went tits up and would not make primers go off.
Masking tape and cardboard can make a field expedient cheekpiece.
6.5lb 30-06's have no place on a precision bolt firing line.

Chase1
05-25-2008, 8:40 PM
Had a good time, learned alot looking forward to the next one.

Thanks don and everybody that helped

FlyingPen
05-25-2008, 8:48 PM
Masking tape and cardboard can make a field expedient cheekpiece.


A painful lesson. I have the bruises and blood to prove it.

Cypriss32
05-25-2008, 9:30 PM
No major events for me.
My stock 700 sendero barrel has to go, cold bore shots are not consistent.

A Savage 10FP went tits up and would not make primers go off.
Masking tape and cardboard can make a field expedient cheekpiece.
6.5lb 30-06's have no place on a precision bolt firing line.

Tubb firing pin system if they still have it for a savage's anymore. Rock/snieder/bartlien barrels can be had for 315.00 now. Im not shure if you do your own 700/savage trueing's?
But Ive seen some barrel nut less builds over on snipershide.com and they are shooters . BUT I wouldnt waist money being rem action costs the same to do the work, more parts out there for them, and I like them better. How many hunters wanted to play carlos hathcock today?

Cypriss32
05-25-2008, 9:30 PM
A painful lesson. I have the bruises and blood to prove it.

LOL from shooting on a concrete surface?

FlyingPen
05-25-2008, 9:44 PM
LOL from shooting on a concrete surface?

No, fortunately straight shooter lent me his sleeping bag so I was very comfortable.

It was more from my own idiocy and the SPS-Varmint stock. My scope was too high so I was floating my head above the stock and craning my neck far. This of course meant zero cheek weld so when I fired, my rifle would punch me in the face repeatedly.

AR15barrels suggested using layers of cardboard as an artificial riser to get a cheek weld and it worked extremely well and I was no longer pulling my shots or jerking the trigger anticipating the beating from my rifle. This made shooting a lot more enjoyable.

FlyingPen
05-25-2008, 9:46 PM
Curious about other people my round count for the day was 80 rounds.

ar15barrels
05-25-2008, 11:23 PM
How many hunters wanted to play carlos hathcock today?

Two or three.

ar15barrels
05-25-2008, 11:25 PM
Curious about other people my round count for the day was 80 rounds.

47 but I burned the last 3 just to get the 50 rounds used up.

Cypriss32
05-25-2008, 11:25 PM
They need one of these 30-06s:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y230/adam5432002/wsms004.jpg

You coming next weekend to the match?
Bring one of those AR10s you have collecting dust.

ar15barrels
05-25-2008, 11:28 PM
You coming next weekend to the match?
Bring one of those AR10s you have collecting dust.

Planning to.
I don't have a scope zeroed on any of my 308 AR's right now.
If you just want to play, I'll bring the A2.

Cypriss32
05-25-2008, 11:32 PM
Ive been shooting AR's so good im thinking about something in 308 for 2009 build of the year :)
This years funds are full in 223AI and 7wsm. They are waiting for TOTAL finishing funds to arrive in sales from the last 2 weeks.

wasabe
05-26-2008, 8:35 AM
60 rounds for me. Good class, learned a lot. Looking forward to the advanced class.

StraightShooter
05-26-2008, 9:29 AM
My round count was 55 but I blew another 15 rounds at the end of the day just for fun.

hybridatsun350
05-26-2008, 12:27 PM
I thought it was an awesome class. I had never been to range that went out to such a distance, and it was great. I probably shouldn't have shot 102 rounds of .308 in one day because my shoulder was feeling it pretty good. I honestly couldn't believe I was hitting that 675 yrd. target almost every single time. I can't say I hit the 887 yrd target, but I'll just blaim that on the 20 inch barrel, the heavy stock trigger, and the cheap Prvi "Match" ammo.

FlyingPen
05-26-2008, 4:14 PM
Yeah, it was an incredible amount of fun and opened up a whole new world of shooting.

I'm already building a shopping cart on Brownells on all the stuff I "need" although I'm tempted to keep my cardboard cheek riser for sentimental value.

bd457
05-26-2008, 5:12 PM
My round count was 66. I was have'n too much fun bang'n the 887 until the wind really picked up. Had to hold over more than 3.5 mil windage to hit it. Unfortunatly this class may have cost me over $2500............ My Canadian Mil SN3 might have to be replaced with a PCMOA SN3 instead. Thanks for turning me on to that whom ever it was.

I'm looking forward to running the graph on load and testing it out UKD.

Cypriss32
05-26-2008, 5:44 PM
My Canadian Mil SN3 might have to be replaced with a PCMOA SN3 instead. Thanks for turning me on to that whom ever it was.

WHO THE F*** SAID THAT! I SO AM IN LOVE WITH CANADIAN scopes. Been hoping USO GB is a go.... an doing a scope like the original.

bd457
05-26-2008, 5:55 PM
WEEELLLLL..........I just may have an SN3 3.7-17 Low profile AO. lit CANADIAN reticle with metric ERGO for sale or trade to you then. Having used it(the canadian/metric , the Mil reticle with Mil nob, and a standard Mil reticle MOA nob, I'm flat sold on the PCMOA.

Cypriss32
05-26-2008, 6:03 PM
Pm me your asking price. Want a NF 5.5-22x 50mm NPR2 MOA retical/MOA knobs?

SDJim
05-26-2008, 6:13 PM
A Savage 10FP went tits up and would not make primers go off.
Masking tape and cardboard can make a field expedient cheekpiece.
6.5lb 30-06's have no place on a precision bolt firing line.
That was my Savage that went TU.

Many thanks to those who spent the better part of two hours helping me troubleshoot.
For those who gave suggestions:
When I got home, I checked the headspace . . . Closed on the go, didn't on the no-go.

Then I tried to figure out how to check to see if I had set the shoulder back to far when I sized the cases. I found out a deepwell 3/8" socket indexed right off the midline of the case shoulder.
So as a reference the go gauge read (this includes the length of the socket) 3.588
A LR118 case fired from the same rifle 3.589
New LR118 3.587
New BH 175 3.587
New BH 175 I attempted to fire 3.5875
My reloads 3.88

So while my reloads appear to be longer than factory, they are right in there with the go-gauge, and as they fired in Jicko's rifle, I don't think it was the ammo, which leaves the bolt.

I cleaned and scrubbed everything inside & out, then I adjusted the fp stop to set the firing pin protrusion to .054, I'll have to call Savage and see what the recommended setting is and then I tightened down on the cocking piece till the cocking pin hit on the bolt, then backed it off till I had .050 clearance, so now I'm sure the pin is bottoming out in the bolt and not getting hung up on the pin.

I cycled the bolt and pulled the trigger and there is a much
more noticable "thunk" (the guys helping me noticed the anemic click) as the pin goes forward.

Short of firing a couple of primed cases in the garage (how loud is that by the way?) I'll have to wait till the next time I go to the range.

Thanks for listening . . .

Update - I called the Savage Tech Help Line yesterday (5/27) and they were less than helpful. I asked what the spec was on the firing pin and the person on the line was forthcoming untill she asked if I was a "licenced" gunsmith, as soon as I said no, she said they couldn't help me and to send the bolt in for repair/replacement.

When I got home from work, I pulled down five of the rounds I loaded the primed cases (two that I tried to fire, three that were "virgins") and fired them into a 5 gal bucket with some damp towels in the bottom. It was much less impressive than I originally expected.

Five attempts, five fired primers. I guess I'll bring the bolt gun with me to South Bay and give it a try after next months HP match.

FlyingPen
05-26-2008, 6:20 PM
Looking for some clarification on the Pala range.

If we join the NCSA club, we can go on match days and after matches we can typically practice after we pay the range fee of $15 right? Are there any other days we can come and shoot?

Chase1
05-26-2008, 6:35 PM
Dont quote me but I think that is correct. Also I believe Monday and Friday's are open to members.

Loved the class, learned what I like and dont like and is why you see all the gear up for sale here now :)

Looking for some clarification on the Pala range.

If we join the NCSA club, we can go on match days and after matches we can typically practice after we pay the range fee of $15 right? Are there any other days we can come and shoot?

Cypriss32
05-26-2008, 6:40 PM
Loved the class, learned what I like and dont like and is why you see all the gear up for sale here now :)

What did you learn mate?

FlyingPen
05-26-2008, 6:58 PM
Also I believe Monday and Friday's are open to members.

All Mondays and Fridays are open to members?

Chase1
05-26-2008, 7:41 PM
I think the main thing may have been keeping it simple. I spent the last month reading so much technical crap that I dont think I need now

I took the couple simple factors Don said to, dialed in and plink.

ar15barrels
05-26-2008, 10:53 PM
Want a NF 5.5-22x 50mm NPR2 MOA retical/MOA knobs?

I might be interested.

Cypriss32
05-26-2008, 11:10 PM
Not giving it away like that one earlier today!

Bigugly
05-27-2008, 8:02 AM
Looking for some clarification on the Pala range.

If we join the NCSA club, we can go on match days and after matches we can typically practice after we pay the range fee of $15 right? Are there any other days we can come and shoot?

Ok here is the skinny on the Pala range.

North County Shootist Association leases the land from the Indians. The club has several groups that get designated days to use the range NCSA High Power is one of those. Two of the groups charge for an extra membership for maintenance of the targets, IPSC and NSCA High Power.

The membership for only NCSA allows you to shoot most Mondays and Fridays as well as Varmint, Cowboy, Black powder, Lever action and a couple more. It will not include IPSC and NCSA High Power matches. If you join NCSA High Power it automatically includes membership to NCSA, I am not sure about IPSC.

NCSA: http://www.ncsapala.com/

NCSA High Power: http://www.ncsahighpower.com/index.asp

FlyingPen
05-27-2008, 8:45 AM
Ok sweet, looks like I'll be joining since it's the only range within a reasonable distance that goes out beyond a 100 yards.

I *thought* I heard it was $65/year and I didn't know we had to be members of the NRA. No big deal though.

Bigugly
05-27-2008, 8:55 AM
Ok sweet, looks like I'll be joining since it's the only range within a reasonable distance that goes out beyond a 100 yards.

I *thought* I heard it was $65/year and I didn't know we had to be members of the NRA. No big deal though.

NRA underwrites the insurance, hence membership is required.

$45 NCSA only
$85 NCSA High Power (includes NCSA)

mprahm
05-28-2008, 9:44 AM
That was me that had the PCMOA on the AR10. The guy next to me John also had one on his bolt gun, for anyone that has not looked thru this type of reticle you need to before you make any decisions on a new purchase. The debate goes on and on about MIL vs MOA but if your intentions are strictly tactical/longe range shooting and you think in inches not metric then this is the way to go hands down. Range finding for me and hold overs where effortless. I was shooting out to 885 in no time at all, and it was my first time past 200 yards. Thanks to Don and John for holding this event, it was well worth it!


My round count was 66. I was have'n too much fun bang'n the 887 until the wind really picked up. Had to hold over more than 3.5 mil windage to hit it. Unfortunatly this class may have cost me over $2500............ My Canadian Mil SN3 might have to be replaced with a PCMOA SN3 instead. Thanks for turning me on to that whom ever it was.

I'm looking forward to running the graph on load and testing it out UKD.

bd457
05-28-2008, 10:38 AM
Yeah.....thanks for cost'n me a couple MORE grand I don't have.

Seriously though, thanks for the quick run through on that. When I made my USO order, I was up in the air between the PCMOA and the Canadian (which I went with) and The PCMOA is hands down a better system I think.

rksimple
05-28-2008, 10:50 AM
The debate goes on and on about MIL vs MOA but if your intentions are strictly tactical/longe range shooting and you think in inches not metric then this is the way to go hands down.

Once you shoot more and more tactical/long range stuff, you won't think in inches or cm at all. You'll think in minutes or mils. Then it doesn't matter. The only time inches comes into play is if you're ranging something whose size is given in inches. Spotters will give you your impact or correction in mils or minutes, not inches. Both systems work very well.

FlyingPen
05-28-2008, 11:05 AM
I'm looking at the Falcon Menace http://www.falconoptics.com/menace4-14x44FFP.php Because it seems to be the only under $1000 with a 30mm tube and FFP.

Which reticle and knob choice would be easiest to use for a beginner learning?

FFP Skeleton Mil Dot @4x @14x
FFP MP20
FFP Enhanced SLR Mil Dot

Side focus from 10-1000y, infinity. (1/4 MOA models)
Side focus from 10-1000m, infinity. (Metric 1cm click models)

ar15barrels
05-28-2008, 11:11 AM
I'm looking at the Falcon Menace http://www.falconoptics.com/menace4-14x44FFP.php Because it seems to be the only under $1000 with a 30mm tube and FFP.

Which reticle and knob choice would be easiest to use for a beginner learning?

FFP Skeleton Mil Dot @4x @14x
FFP MP20
FFP Enhanced SLR Mil Dot

Side focus from 10-1000y, infinity. (1/4 MOA models)
Side focus from 10-1000m, infinity. (Metric 1cm click models)

Depends on what the MP20 reticle is...

USN CHIEF
05-28-2008, 11:43 AM
When are you guys/gurls doing this again? I did not realized how closed Pala was to SD....

Bigugly
05-28-2008, 11:58 AM
When are you guys/gurls doing this again? I did not realized how closed Pala was to SD....

The NCSA High Power club has a tactical match on the 22nd. next month. http://www.ncsahighpower.com/08dates.asp

Also I think John was planing a continuation of the class on the 29th. next month. But that has not been finalized.

USN CHIEF
05-28-2008, 12:04 PM
The NCSA High Power club has a tactical match on the 22nd. next month. http://www.ncsahighpower.com/08dates.asp

Also I think John was planing a continuation of the class on the 29th. But that has not been finalized.

Where can I find info on the class? NEVER MIND, FOUND THE THREAD...

Bigugly
05-28-2008, 12:09 PM
Where did you find info. on the possible June 29th. class?

USN CHIEF
05-28-2008, 12:21 PM
Where did you find info. on the possible June 29th. class?

No, I found the original thread to this thread. I did not find any other info..

FlyingPen
05-28-2008, 2:27 PM
Depends on what the MP20 reticle is...

I think it's supposed to be similar to MP8

ar15barrels
05-28-2008, 2:42 PM
I think it's supposed to be similar to MP8

If it's an MOA version of an MP8, it's probably like the Nightforce NP-R2.
I would go that way with MOA knobs.

If you go mil-dot, go with metric knobs.

It's probably most important to match what your shooting partner uses (MOA-MOA or MIL-MIL).

FlyingPen
05-28-2008, 4:56 PM
My shooting partner might be a Panasonic 18x optical zoom digicam with video record and an overlayed mildot layer on the screen :)

rksimple
05-28-2008, 5:22 PM
The mp20 is in mils IIRC. If you can spot your own impacts through your scope, it really doesn't matter what system (MOA or mil) you have.

FlyingPen
05-29-2008, 2:57 AM
Here is an MP20 reticle, better than standard mildot? http://falconoptics.com/images/new/mp20.jpg

At 14x FFP Mildot

http://falconoptics.com/images/skeletonmildotx14.jpg

Also available in enhanced skeleton long range mil dot...

http://falconoptics.com/images/enhancedmildot.jpg

I'm leaning towards MP20

Chase1
05-29-2008, 4:57 AM
Anybody going to Pala this weekend?

I have their application but it says to include NRA member number. I just joined NRA and my welcome email says 4 to 6 weeks wait on membership package :(

Bigugly
05-29-2008, 8:11 AM
Anybody going to Pala this weekend?

I have their application but it says to include NRA member number. I just joined NRA and my welcome email says 4 to 6 weeks wait on membership package :(

I am not sure what type of shooting you are planning on but the calendar shows Combined IPSC/Saddle Tramp Posse on 05-31, therefore the main rifle range will be closed. And 06-01 shows Varmint Rifle match/long range .22 silhouette, so if you just want to practice on the main rifle range you will need to wait till after the match. About 1:00 or so. Or shoot the match, max 6.5mm.

Ok here is the skinny on the Pala range.

North County Shootist Association leases the land from the Indians. The club has several groups that get designated days to use the range NCSA High Power is one of those. Two of the groups charge for an extra membership for maintenance of the targets, IPSC and NSCA High Power.

The membership for only NCSA allows you to shoot most Mondays and Fridays as well as Varmint, Cowboy, Black powder, Lever action and several more. It will not include IPSC and NCSA High Power matches. If you join NCSA High Power it automatically includes membership to NCSA, I am not sure about IPSC.

NCSA: http://www.ncsapala.com/

NCSA High Power: http://www.ncsahighpower.com/index.asp

FlyingPen
05-29-2008, 8:40 AM
Do you just have the check the schedule/calendar to know which Mondays/Fridays you can use the range? DO you pay a red shirt there for the day use?

ar15barrels
05-29-2008, 9:00 AM
Here is an MP20 reticle, better than standard mildot?

Go with the MP20 with metric knobs.

FlyingPen
05-29-2008, 9:14 AM
Cool... Just have to wait for it to be in stock again.. mid June :(

Bigugly
05-29-2008, 9:40 AM
Do you just have the check the schedule/calendar to know which Mondays/Fridays you can use the range? DO you pay a red shirt there for the day use?

If you are interested only in Mondays and Fridays, that is a NCSA only membership. I believe $45 a year non prorated and the $15 day use. The guys that run Mondays and Fridays do not have red shirts (incognito).

Keep in mind If you are interested in shooting in a long range or tactical rifle match You will need to join NCSA High Power, NSCA only does not cover those.

http://www.ncsapala.com/

http://www.ncsahighpower.com/

wildcard
05-29-2008, 9:51 AM
Such a complex system. Glad you're here to explain it!

Bigugly
05-29-2008, 10:21 AM
Such a complex system. Glad you're here to explain it!

Yes, I guess when there are ten different groups, the cops and military using the same range it is complex.

I have been a member there eight years or so and a RSO (red shirt) for five. I joined the NCSA High Power club, for me that is the best way to go. First the extra $ goes to new and maintenance of the targets, I can shoot in practically any match but primarily the tactical and varmint matches and occasionally Mondays. And as a red shirt some other days during the week, but being a red shirt means working during the matches (on rotating days) and fixing broken targets and other repairs. I don't mind it is one of the nicer ranges I have been to.

Michael

FlyingPen
05-29-2008, 1:40 PM
Thanks for the info. The class was literally the first time I even shot a bolt action rifle so I think I'd like to get in at least a thousand rounds of practice before I even think about going to matches.

This seems to show which Mondays/Fridays are available.

http://www.ncsapala.com/calander%202008/jun%202008.htm

I would hate to drive an hour to the range and be turned away.

Chase1
05-29-2008, 1:40 PM
Thanks for the clarification

What Im trying to figure out is the NRA membership in order to join.

I just joined and it says like 4 to 6 weeks until card arrives. You think that email confirmation would work for NCRA membership until the card comes?

wildcard
05-29-2008, 1:46 PM
Thanks for the info. The class was literally the first time I even shot a bolt action rifle so I think I'd like to get in at least a thousand rounds of practice before I even think about going to matches.

Part of doing well at the matches is also being able to get a feel for them. If there are ones local to you that don't cost too much.. just go. You'll start to recognize things you need to focus on during your practice sessions.

If nothing else, you still get to put a few bullets down range and talk to other shooters for some pointers.

rksimple
05-29-2008, 2:01 PM
Part of doing well at the matches is also being able to get a feel for them. If there are ones local to you that don't cost too much.. just go. You'll start to recognize things you need to focus on during your practice sessions.

If nothing else, you still get to put a few bullets down range and talk to other shooters for some pointers.

This is good advice. Just go, shoot your rig, and learn. You'll soon see what you want in your equipment, what works and what doesn't , and save money by not buying useless "gucci gear." You'll get better much more quickly.

Bigugly
05-29-2008, 5:05 PM
Thanks for the clarification

What Im trying to figure out is the NRA membership in order to join.

I just joined and it says like 4 to 6 weeks until card arrives. You think that email confirmation would work for NCRA membership until the card comes?

North County Shootist Association requires NRA membership because they underwrite the liability insurance.

Joining NCSA only to shoot on Mondays, Fridays and events other than NCSA High Power and IPSC they seem to be a little more lax on the NRA thing. You may want to call Harold of NCSA his phone number is on the NCSA Pala site on the top under contact us.

http://www.ncsapala.com/

As far as the NCSA High Power group goes we are very much about doing it by the book. The last thing we want is an incident on our time without having all of our ducks in a row. Don’t forget that our group requires you to shoot with us twice as a guest before you are eligible to join, that is where the waver comes in. So if you attended the class, that counts as one. So you have plenty of time to get your info, as our group like all the others get only one day a month.

http://www.ncsahighpower.com/

Hope this helps. If you or any one else have any questions I have not answered, P.M. me and I will give you my phone number.

Michael

Chase1
05-30-2008, 5:05 PM
Understood thank you. I did attend the class and did just get my NRA number via email...just not the actual card.

So I need to attend as a guest one more time while Im waiting for the actual card. Is there a date for that and do I need to be invited
by a member, or just show with gifts and bribes?

Thanks again

Bigugly
05-31-2008, 8:30 AM
Understood thank you. I did attend the class and did just get my NRA number via email...just not the actual card.

So I need to attend as a guest one more time while Im waiting for the actual card. Is there a date for that and do I need to be invited
by a member, or just show with gifts and bribes?

Thanks again

Just bring your card or a print of the E-Mail. Check the calendar on our site and show up, mention to the red shirts that you were at the class and they will guide you through it. We can prorate. ask for me and I will have the total for you, Off the top of my head I do not remember. Cookies, muffins and like are never refused.

Michael

I am sending a P.M. with my phone #.