CCW Article -San Benito County

[acegunnr]

http://www.pinnaclenews.com/news/contentview.asp?c=243236


Packing a piece

Friday, May 16, 2008
By Mark Paxton

Relatively few legally carry weapons locally


Scarcely more than two-dozen civilians in San Benito County are licensed to carry concealed weapons.


People who are not employed in law enforcement must obtain a permit to legally carry a handgun in California and renew that permit every two years.


But for one reason or another, relatively few people are asking for them, and law enforcement officials are at a loss to explain why, or to explain why there seems to be a small rise in interest to pack a piece recently.


"What's interesting is you've got counties like Kern that have something like 5,000 permits out," said Sheriff Curtis Hill. "For some reason, we just don't get that many requests."


All of the valid permits in San Benito County were issued through Hill's office.


"My requirements are very, very strict," said Hollister Police Chief Jeff Miller. "The bottom line is, you have to demonstrate a very real need to carry a concealed firearm."


And at the bottom of that bottom line, Miller has issued no current concealed weapon permits. In fact, he said the last request for one was more than a year ago.


Sheriff Hill, too, takes his responsibility seriously, but he's quick to add that he's not opposed to private citizens carrying weapons.


"The number of permits that I have is incredibly low," Hill said. "I don't know why. My policy … is not restrictive at all."


Dep. Marc Williams processes all permit requests through the sheriff's department. He said there are "approximately 25 active concealed weapon permits" in the county.


Williams did say that he's seen "increased interest," and "we have six new CCW's [concealed carry weapons] pending investigation with more coming in, so I'm sure we'll have more CCW applicants in the future."


Williams said current permit holders fall into two groups, rural ranchers who are likely to encounter armed trespassers and local business people who often carry large sums of cash. But recent applicants fall into a different group, he said.


"They don't feel safe in town. I had one guy who was in the process. He came home right after his house was burglarized," he said.


"That's a sad commentary, isn't it?" Hill remarked. "I don't know if it's a local or a global concern. Violence and crime are going down, actually."


Hill said most of the violence reported in San Benito County is related to gang activity.


"Saturday afternoon, I'm driving into town and I'm on Airline near Enterprise," Hill said. "I see two guys in full gang paraphernalia - red clothes head to toe. They weigh maybe 200 pounds between them. They didn't have a lot of physical ability between them. You get four to five guys in a car with the wrong attitude and they're in for a beating or worse."


Law enforcement officials agree that there are certainly many more guns tucked into waistbands than 25 permits would indicate. Hill described an estimate of 1,000 guns on local streets as conservative.


Obtaining a permit is relatively straightforward, and it's spelled out in a six-page policy on file at the sheriff's office.


"A resident of the county comes to the sheriff's department and requests a CCW packet from the office staff," Williams explained. "The packet contains all the necessary forms and instructions on how to complete them. Upon completion of the forms the resident returns the completed packet to the sheriff's department."


After reviewing completed applications, Williams does a background check, looking into local and state records for criminal history and interviewing references. "If no problems or issues are apparent, the resident is scheduled for a 'Livescan' appointment where they are electronically fingerprinted," he said. The prints go to the state Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigations.


Once everyone approves, the applicant goes to Hill for review and approval or denial.


Successful applicants have to attend a four-hour training session covering liability issues at the sheriff's office.


Williams said his office does not check for ability to handle a firearm.


The video presentation is intended to get people to think about the ramifications of using a firearm.


"Bottom line, you never want to shoot somebody," Williams said.

[CCWFacts]

I'm happy to hear that Sheriff Hill welcomes applicants, but I won't entirely believe it until there's some real-world confirmation of that.

And regarding the article:

Williams said current permit holders fall into two groups, rural ranchers who are likely to encounter armed trespassers and local business people who often carry large sums of cash.

"I need to defend myself against armed trespassers" is ridiculous as GC, because, by definition, trespassing occurs on one's own property, and a permit is not needed to carry concealed on one's own property. It's bizarre, apparently Santa Barbara accepts "defense against trespassers" as GC, even though trespassers or any threats on one's own property are irrelevant to CCW permits.

Anyway, I hope this guy issues as he says he does.

[Californio]

The Farmers I know leave private property and run errands in town several times a day, if they could be armed at all times, both coming and going, from the farm, that would be good.

My friend that truck farms a 1000 acres, checks things out every morning and then hits the local cafe at 0500, back to the farm, over to other plots on public roads etc. Most farmers have a home ranch and then lease other plots which requires driving on public roads.

It would be a real pain in the arse to secure the weapon all day long, as they moved from place to place.

Don't assume a farm is a contiguous piece of land.

[CCWFacts]

I'm only pointing out that using "defending myself on my own property" as part of a good cause statement isn't logical. It is a hassle to secure weapons when leaving a property, but "convenience" is also not supposed to be a factor in evaluating good cause.

To be clear, I entirely support the idea of ranchers, and non-ranchers, and anyone else who is neither a rancher nor a non-rancher, from having access to CCWs. The entire good cause evaluation should be thrown out, just like it has been in 38 other states. This example shows how ridiculous the whole thing is. Convenience should be a valid reason for wanting a CCW.

[Paladin]

"My requirements are very, very strict," said Hollister Police Chief Jeff Miller. "The bottom line is, you have to demonstrate a very real need to carry a concealed firearm."


And at the bottom of that bottom line, Miller has issued no current concealed weapon permits.There's never a PI wearing a costume from '70s movie around when you need 'im. ;)

[Piper]

I think they're both arrogant asses. If a person can legally own and/or possess a firearm, that should be good enough to qualify for a CCW. All of this garbage about restricting possession at certain locations and under certain circumstances is ridiculous. For example, in some states a person can't carry where alcohol is served. Why ? If a person wants to get drunk and shoot someone, they can get drunk at home. And what about the garbage of carrying a firearm in public buildings ? If someone wants to shoot someone in city hall, the least of his or her worries is committing a misdemeanor.

We may not like DOJ, but I still think that passing right to carry and turning the whole CCW process over to them is the best way to handle it. It takes the politics out of CCW's and puts the authority squarely with the agency that deals with other aspects of firearms.

[yellowfin]

We may not like DOJ, but I still think that passing right to carry and turning the whole CCW process over to them is the best way to handle it. It takes the politics out of CCW's and puts the authority squarely with the agency that deals with other aspects of firearms.While I agree, the major and crucial step in that is kicking the antis out of the DOJ in the first place before doing that or they will say no to EVERYONE. NO ONE will get a CCW if they have their way with it. They are essentially militant vegans running the butcher shop.

[Piper]

While I agree, the major and crucial step in that is kicking the antis out of the DOJ in the first place before doing that or they will say no to EVERYONE. NO ONE will get a CCW if they have their way with it. They are essentially militant vegans running the butcher shop.

The key is passing shall issue right to carry. It's just like DROS, unless DOJ finds something that prevents a person from possessing a firearm, they must give an ffl the green light to sell a firearm to a customer. It's as simple as that. No more going to A PD or SD and then getting the runaround from them along with different variations on policy and paperwork. In fact, I would suggest that an ffl could have the CCW application on hand for a person to fill out and submit with thumbprint and fees to DOJ.

[yellowfin]

To get shall issue in this state would require purging both houses of the legislature of 2/3 of their occupants. That is going to require a change of the people. The people of this state need to be changed. They can be. If people actually sit and watch American Idol, if people can be talked into voting for...well, take darn near every example of a poltician out there, if people actually buy Diet Mountain Dew or Propel "fitness water", then they can be sold ANYTHING. We just need to sell harder, to EVERYONE, EVERY DAY.

[Glock22Fan]

I'm only pointing out that using "defending myself on my own property" as part of a good cause statement isn't logical.


Let's remember that many farms are not totally fenced and gated. From other threads on CALGUNS, farmers might need to think carefully whether their farmland is publically accessible or not before carrying. Think "Overturf."

[ravenbkp]

Ranchers frequently run their cattle on other peoples land by prior agreement. Leases of public land for that purpose are quite common in the Bay area and clearly if they want to carry in that circumstance a CCW would be needed.

[nicki]

Sounds like in the paper the sheriff is willing to issue, but what we need are people to actually apply.

The ideal would be for about 1000 of you to apply for CCW permits in San Benito, but I know that won't happen.

If 100 of you applied, that would get the sheriffs attention, especially if you had a diverse group that covered race and gender.

So are there any leaders in San Benito to get things started?

Jim March who was a ccw pioneer in this state is no longer around, but his website is still active at www.equalccw.com

His site details alot of problems with the CCW system, good reading to help you understand what you are dealing with.

The reality is everyone has the right to submit an application and each application is required to be fairly reviewed.

The sheriff is required to maintain records of all applications, who got and who didn't get approved and what their good cause statements were.

All those records are public records and the sheriff has to release them if you give him a public records act request.

The CCW law has already taken hits on equal protection issues over the years.

Jim was a personal friend of mine and I understand the implications of what he put on his site.

If there is interest in what I posted from anyone, send me a PM and we will go from there.

Nicki

[Ford8N]

http://www.pinnaclenews.com/news/contentview.asp?c=243236



Williams said current permit holders fall into two groups, rural ranchers who are likely to encounter armed trespassers and local business people who often carry large sums of cash.





My Sheriff would say..

Call 911
don't carry large sums of cash, use a check
Call 911
if we issue a CCW and you shoot someone, the county will get sued.
Call 911
and on...
and on...
and on...

[CitaDeL]

Funny.

The writer feigns journalistic impartiality by interviewing two authorities who feign an interest in conducting themselves as fair and reasonable enforcers of law.

The grim reality is none of these people have any interest in allowing the supreme law of the land be the arbiter of who should and who shouldnt carry a firearm.

It also seems a fulfilled prophecy of mine- that one Sheriff claims there is little interest in applying for a license to conceal...and this absense of applicants, forces the question of need for anyone to be armed.

[Billy Jack]

Do not PRAR any department unless you have a plan of action and an objective. Doing a PRAR FYI is a very bad idea. If you alert the department, files can be sanitized, making it difficult if not impossible to do a comprehensive investigation of the department at a later time.

There is an established 'Model' or protocol for doing a PRAR of a departments files. I will not share this here. If anyone in San Benito County or elsewhere is interested contact us at:
www.californiaconcealedcarry.com

TBJ is has a plan and has volunteers, under guidance of PI's and Attorneys, reviewing select departments from the Mexico border to Dirty Harry's old department. 'Are you interested, ...well are you!'

Do not go off half cocked on your mission. Do it with guidance and a plan. If San Benito has any credible applicants with integrity and focus, the man in 'The Hat' will be most happy to visit.

Those residing in the South Bay, start reading the South Bay Daily Breeze in June. Another gift from Team Billy Jack.

Billy Jack


'When policemen break the law, then there isn't any law,...just a fight for survival!'

[Kenneth83]

I just now came across this thread, I`m looking to get it active. Any other residents of San Benito County interested in getting this ball rolling??

[yellowfin]

I, too, am curious as to how many people have applied in San Benito since this thread has started.

[7x57]

....ranchers, and non-ranchers, and anyone else who is neither a rancher nor a non-rancher...

<sputter> But...logical negation...rule of the excluded third...empty set...meaningless term...<sputter>

Oh, never mind.

7x57

[Captain Evilstomper]

does anybody here CCW in PLacer co?
i would love to apply but i want to know what is a good cause.

[MP301]

While I agree, the major and crucial step in that is kicking the antis out of the DOJ in the first place before doing that or they will say no to EVERYONE. NO ONE will get a CCW if they have their way with it. They are essentially militant vegans running the butcher shop.

He said Militant vegans running the butcher shop!!! :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

The funniest part of it, is that its so very true!

[tango-52]

does anybody here CCW in PLacer co?
i would love to apply but i want to know what is a good cause.
Placer County is CCW friendly. Check in at www.calccw.com, read the FAQs and other info which should give you a good basis to start from.

[BitterVoter]

I just found out my city issues permits!

I am betting that they don't get many applications...but I will try. . . But then I would need to get a weapon small enough to CC.

[nick]

What city is this? Thinking about moving... The city I live in redirects you to LASD, which is a no-issue, unless you're a celebrity and invited Lee Baca to a party.

[nick]

Placer County is CCW friendly. Check in at www.calccw.com, read the FAQs and other info which should give you a good basis to start from.

I have some property in Placer County. Unfortunately, even if I shift my official residence to it, they have their own procedure of establishing residence in the COunty, which is different from that of the State of California. Pity, as I thought about using my property there to obtain a CCW permit, since my County is no-issue.

[xrMike]

I just now came across this thread, I`m looking to get it active. Any other residents of San Benito County interested in getting this ball rolling??Ken,

I've considered applying, but haven't done so yet for a couple reasons:


getting a CCW is not currently high on my "To Do" list
i've read the application process described on the SBC Sheriff's website, described as follows:


Eligible citizens shall make formal requests in writing to the Sheriff . If good cause exists for the issuance of a concealed weapon's permit, applicants will be scheduled to meet with the Sheriff or his designee. If consideration is granted, the applicant will be given a Concealed Weapon's Permit application. The applicant must complete the application in its entirety and elaborate extensively as to the reasons why the permit is desired. The applicant shall return the completed application and a signed copy of the Rules and Regulations governing the permit to the Sheriff. At this time, the applicant will pay by check all fees in accordance with the listed pay schedule.

http://www.sbcsheriff.org/permits_cwp_procedure.html

If you read that carefully, you'll see how the app process for this county ensures that the sheriff's dept. can DENY you a CCW before you even get a chance to apply! How? Well, you have to submit your Good Cause statement and meet with them first, then (and only then, if they deem your cause good), are you allowed to fill out the actual paperwork and begin the "official" app process.

In short, they can DENY you without ever giving you the chance to fill out the paperwork to apply! No paperwork also means: "Nobody ever applies here in this county!". Which is exactly what Sheriff Hill is saying in that article. Who knows if he's telling the truth or not, since there is no paperwork to prove/disprove it?

This is illegal, I'm sure.

Anyway, PM me if you live in this county and are thinking about applying. I might be willing to try also. We should probably get in touch with TBJ first (or other knowledgable folk) for tips about how to proceed. On 2nd thought, I'm guessing TBJ will give us the brush-off unless we have really excellent "GC". He seems to prefer slam-dunks...

Not saying for sure I will do it, but I might.

[BitterVoter]

What city is this? Thinking about moving... The city I live in redirects you to LASD, which is a no-issue, unless you're a celebrity and invited Lee Baca to a party.

From my understanding if they issue one permit they can not redirect you. They are the issuing agency for you.

That isn't to say that I can't go to LASD, but they are the best first stop. We already know the requirements of LASD.

Alhambra is one of those "safe" cities that likely doesn't issue many because most don't apply.

[Python2]

I have some property in Placer County. .

Just make sure it is a legitimate residence with all your personal effects in it not some rental properties you own or piece of undevelop land:D

[Kenneth83]

Mike,
I am aware of the potential for the paperless run-around the sbcs can give us. My thoughts are, if we can get enough people interested, it will at least become an open issue. We can proceed form there, but I feel that is the first step, even before establishing good cause. A good place to meet is on the san benito section of the California CCW - concealed carry forum. Here is the link for the thread I started there.
-Kenny
http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/5087.page#72170

[xrMike]

Mike,
I am aware of the potential for the paperless run-around the sbcs can give us. My thoughts are, if we can get enough people interested, it will at least become an open issue. We can proceed form there, but I feel that is the first step, even before establishing good cause. A good place to meet is on the san benito section of the California CCW - concealed carry forum. Here is the link for the thread I started there.
-Kenny
http://californiaccw.org/posts/list/5087.page#72170PM sent. I am user "SBC" on that forum, but haven't posted/visited there in a long time. I am ready to apply but need to figure out how to articulate GC first. Please PM to discuss further. Curtis Hill has now made public statements about his issuance policy in 2 different newspaper articles (see my post in that other forum for the 2nd newspaper article). Those statements could be useful later on, if/after denial... ???

[Cru Jones]

I also live in SBC and haven't even thought about applying because of the rumors that it was impossible. What I'm unclear of is do I have to live in unincorporated SBC to apply with the Sheriff's Office? Am I excluded from applying with the S.O. if I live within city limits? I will PM those of you in SBC looking to apply. I'm game.

[C5A]

CCW in San Benito Co. I picked up an application package and was told that yes the Sheriff is issuing, under proper circumstances. They only have instruction classes twice a year so it may be a long wait.

Update: July 7 2009 Application submitted.

[Fjold]

Here's an idea.

Volunteer for one of the local charitable organizations, veteran's groups, etc. Become the treasurer or secretary who handles the money, making deposits, collecting donations, fund raisers etc.

It gives you good cause and helps the community.

[Liberty1]

Let's remember that many farms are not totally fenced and gated. From other threads on CALGUNS, farmers might need to think carefully whether their farmland is publically accessible or not before carrying. Think "Overturf."

I'm not at all familiar with San Benito County but it is likely that PC 12031 isn't applicable in much of the county just like in Kern. Therefore loaded open carry is not proscribed except in the incorporated cities, school zones, state and national parks and other specific places like gov. buildings, post offices, etc... (I'll have to look at the county's ordinances).

[HondaMasterTech]

Discretion give the issuing entity the authority to decide who lives and who dies at the hands of an attacker. Its horrible.

[Liberty1]

I'm not at all familiar with San Benito County but it is likely that 12031 isn't applicable in much of the county just like in Kern. Therefore loaded open carry is not proscribed except in the incorporated cities, school zones, state and national parks and other specific places like gov. buildings, post offices, etc... (I'll have to look at the county's ordinances).

OK an internet search only (IANAL) shows San Benito County Codes with NO regulation of firearms or discharge at the county level that I could find: http://www.san-benito.ca.us/

So, like Kern County (except Kern County owned or maintained parks), state law is the law of the unincorporated territory (some cities may or may not have enforceable/unenforceable firearm codes). LOC away Ranchers (IM-IANAL-O;)). (note LCC on one's own property would also be GtG sans CCW too in the unincorporated territories)

[GuyW]

Here's an idea.

Volunteer for one of the local charitable organizations, veteran's groups, etc. Become the treasurer or secretary who handles the money, making deposits, collecting donations, fund raisers etc.

It gives you good cause and helps the community.

I've heard that people in such circumstances were told, "Fine - quit, its not your job (livelyhood)", and then denied.

To those who deny self-defense, nothing is good cause.
.

[7x57]

"I need to defend myself against armed trespassers" is ridiculous as GC, because, by definition, trespassing occurs on one's own property, and a permit is not needed to carry concealed on one's own property.


What's ridiculous about that? I imagine it works here like in other Western states; most ranchers and farmers are farming disconnected plots of land and need to travel between them, and many of those plots they are leasing the agricultural rights from a private individual or the government. CA law won't allow them to carry between plots over public roads or private roads they don't own, and I imagine also not on plots they don't own but only lease.


It's bizarre, apparently Santa Barbara accepts "defense against trespassers" as GC, even though trespassers or any threats on one's own property are irrelevant to CCW permits.


Remember we also have a court ruling that says your own front yard is "public" for purposes of carrying. You need a CCW to carry on your own property with any legal safety unless it's fenced and locked.

So I don't see the foolishness at all.

7x57

[7x57]

On the one hand, yes it sounds like the sheriff's policy might be less permissive than he lets on.

But on the other, I recall a story that Ed Worley told. At a meeting two guys complained up and down that they couldn't get a CCW in their rural California county (which was apparently de facto shall-issue or close to it). After they ran out of steam he asked them what reason the sheriff's department stated for their denial, and they said they had not even applied because they knew they couldn't get one. So Ed said "let me introduce you to someone, Sheriff XXX, life member of the NRA." While they were sitting there speechless the sheriff gave them his card and said "if you have good cause and get rejected, call me, and if you don't know what good cause is call deputy YYY and he'll explain it to you."

The point of the story is that there may be an awful lot of people out there who don't know that their sheriff issues. However, perhaps not so universally as to make that story make sense. It would be rather interesting to know what is going on there, however. Do we have an NRA member's council there? Someone, I imagine, must really know.

7x57

[yellowfin]

I've heard him tell that story too, and it's quite true. Also the reverse is true too, sadly, as highlighted in other threads. We may never know how many people would have applied in Santa Clara and other Bay area counties if they didn't know it wouldn't automatically be rejected. Getting people to stand up and say so seems out of too many people's comfort zone. In one of our frequent NRA MC emails one point brought up was that numerous people at a recent gun show from Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties stated that they feared ostracism or worse from neighbors and coworkers if they displayed support of RKBA, particularly carry rights. What is this, the Soviet Union? The cycle of repression continues as long as we consent to it.

[bulgron]

I've heard him tell that story too, and it's quite true. Also the reverse is true too, sadly, as highlighted in other threads. We may never know how many people would have applied in Santa Clara and other Bay area counties if they didn't know it wouldn't automatically be rejected. Getting people to stand up and say so seems out of too many people's comfort zone. In one of our frequent NRA MC emails one point brought up was that numerous people at a recent gun show from Santa Clara and Santa Cruz counties stated that they feared ostracism or worse from neighbors and coworkers if they displayed support of RKBA, particularly carry rights. What is this, the Soviet Union? The cycle of repression continues as long as we consent to it.

Ostracism from neighbors, coworkers and employers has been around in this country for a long, long time. I'm pretty sure if you could go back to pre-civil war days, you'd find it was socially risky to express an opinion on slavery that was counter to the local social norms. Ditto on women's suffrage. Ditto on equal rights in the 1960's.

A big part of the problem is that most people are eager to blend in, no matter what. It takes a very stubborn person to defy commonly-held social ideals.

Of course, in this day and age, the guns issue can get some people scared that you're going to "go postal" or some such. Next thing you know, you're getting kicked out of school. It's part of the hysteria brought to you by a sensationalizing liberal press.

There is no good answer for this except to work like crazy to make gun ownership a socially normal thing. That is, strengthen the gun culture until the bulk of society thinks that a guy who likes to spend a Saturday afternoon at the range is no more weird than someone who likes to spend Saturday at the bowling alley.